How many hours of training on Strictly Steam Heating systems?

RTW

Greetings professionals:

This question may have been answered somewhere in past, but how many hours of training do HVAC professionals today, and in recent past, get on strictly Steam Heating Systems? It seems from following this site that one cannot trust anyone too new to the business when it comes to steam heating systems eg. using "copper" for near boiler fittings, failing to slow drain or " skim system" of oil/contaminants after boiler replacement, etc. These common errors are littered all over the postings I've read from homeowners on this site who use their local heating company without researching first

Regards,

RTW

Steamhead

From what I've seen, little if any. Same applies to oil burners.

Ironman

Today, most are “sales techs”; they can’t even properly repair straight a/c units, let alone steam or hydronic systems.

retiredguy

I had 40+ years working and installing steam systems and I was still questioned in some cases as to whether I had enough experience to be certain boiler rooms. I learned something every day and if you are wondering, "did I know steam" ? Steam was my friend. I knew a lot but, I didn't know everything about it.

Mad Dog_2

The Steam may never be mastered, but harnessed. Mad Dog

Larry Weingarten

Hi @RTW, I think it boils down to making the effort to always learn on the job as @retiredguy so nicely explained. The unions have formal training, but I've no idea how much they teach low pressure steam, or steam system maintenance. Dan's books (and others in the store here) are a wonderful source of information, and not just for beginners. You may know enough to pass a test and get licensed, but there will still (always) be a lot more to understand. I've been working with domestic hot water for around 45 years and stuff new to me comes up almost daily… or I'm forgetting a lot 🤪

Yours, Larry

GW

it’s a funny world. I’ve seen some completely butchered steam boilers in my travels, and they worked perfectly fine. They shouldn’t have worked, but they do.

A lot of what we do is personal preference and opinion (slightly off-topic, but I get all weird inside when I see people using clear primer on PVC). A lot of what we do is tradition (I use cast-iron fittings on all steam jobs). A lot of all we do is reading the manual (near boiler piping). A lot of what we do is common sense (not getting condensate water trapped in a dry return). A lot of what we do is having some pride in our work (taking a few extra minutes to rip out something ugly and redoing it, even though that task was not required at all)

Every trades profession goes through the same struggle, I have to believe

EBEBRATT-Ed

We all have seen butchered steam systems that "shouldn't work but they do.

But combine the butchery with bad installation, improper piping, wrong pitch on piping and undersized piping and lack of maintenance and bad venting or traps and it is sure to be a recipe for disaster.

So can you cheat and do a lesser job than the manufacturer requires in there install manual and get away with it for less $$$$?

Maybe, maybe not.

Do you want to take that chance? Every job is different

Russian roulette

GW

Russian roulette, perhaps not that severe

I hired this young man to rebuild a cement staircase at a property I own (the seasoned general contractor was too busy). Well, the young man hired another young man to set up the forms. Sure enough, the forms weren’t strong enough, and the cement started to belly and blow. At this moment, the cement dude is over there with a grinder and hammer drill, getting rid of the belly affect. And, it’s not square. Rolling the dice!

RTW

Appreciate the responses, but notice not a single post from a recently inducted tech to HVAC is here to challenge the elder statesmen on discussion - thus, I got my answer

Not sure if there is a LINK on this site or elsewhere, but it would benefit to have a list of all professionals skilled / qualified to work on steam heating systems for the average homeowner based on geographical location. Secondarily, a list of places that provide steam related parts ie used but sound cast iron radiators etc.

Regards,

RTW

pecmsg

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1809773#Comment_1809773

So, WHO decides who's Qualafied and whos not?

HVAC Schools have to cover a very Wide Range of classes. Heating Ventilating Air Conditioning /Refrigeration.

Now if you're going for a High-Pressure Steam license (NYCFDNY) then there are specific classes for that but it's mostly Safety training.

ScottSecor

Not sure if this was mentioned above, but I think you need to consider the following:

In my area of New Jersey the average steam system is one hundred years old. My wild guess is there are at least ten thousand homes within twenty miles of my office that are heated with steam. The majority of these homes have most of the original system in place (mains, radiators, risers, returns, etc. Another wild guess is that there are at least thirty thousand homes in New that are heated with steam.

We have trained every employee we ever hired about steam systems, both residential and commercial. None of the employees that have worked for us had any training one steam. Four of the employees went to HAC trade school they were taught nothing about steam. As a matter of fact most of there training was focused on air conditioning, ductwork, soldering, and brazing. This makes sense as most homes, condos, and apartments are heated with warm air in our area for the last thirty years,

I suspect steam really is "The Lost Art," as Dan Holohan has written. We have sent every employee (including me and my deceased father) to Dan's training seminars, back when he was 'on tour.' I'm not sure if there will ever be another steam heating training session in my lifetime…

Steamhead

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1809773#Comment_1809773

Try the Find a Contractor page of this site for steam men.

retiredguy

As I stated in a statement above, I had 40+ years servicing and installing steam boilers with working pressures up to 300 PSIG. I had absolutely no formal training on steam but was supposed to be an expert starting with my first day on the job. As I learned more and more about steam I tried to teach anyone who was interested in steam systems, all the knowledge I had gained from my research and work experience and even approached my immediate boss about being able to take extra time on the job to teach the less experienced anything that I had learned. His small brain could not comprehend why I would propose such a daunting task since he only wanted all time to be paid for. Teaching was not profitable and he could not charge the customers for that lost time. I did my best to share any knowledge that I had gained. Before I retired I even tried to have classes so I could pass on anything to those under me but he said NO, not in their shop area. What a waste, I retired and took everything I learned with me.

When I was discharged from active duty I went to a tech school that no longer exists to learn HVAC. That too was almost entirely a waste of time since they taught no heating of any kind and only taught refrigeration that was mostly obsolete. I did learn about low and high side floats, soft serve ice cream, and a few other things that were of little value. I will say this, If steam is to stay as a viable source of energy for space heating and industrial production then there should be schools that teach it.

Larry Weingarten

So, It sounds like to keep steam going, we're going to have to change @DanHolohan 's byline to un-retired and loving it! 😁

Yours, Larry

EdTheHeaterMan

@Larry Weingarten , If you did that, @retiredguy's former boss wouldn't send anyone to his classes anyway. Education has no value to him. Eventually everything will be solar or wind powered anyway. In the 1940's "THEY" said that there would be no "Coal in" 10 years in residential heating. coal was still being sold in Philadelphia in the1970's.

In the 1960's "THEY" said that Oil Heat will be replaced by Gas Heat in 10 years. There are still plenty of oil companies delivering home heating oil today.

In the 2020's THEY are saying that all fossil fuel will be gone in 10 years, I will bet you that there will still be a need for someone to service 150 year old steam boilers in the 2040's, even if there is no coal, oil or gas to operate them. That is why we all need to vote. And vote smart!

Otherwise those "Historic District" homes, hotels and apartment buildings will need to be torn down to make way for buildings that have "GREEN" heating system.

Larry Weingarten

You know, there is a LOT of knowledge about steam and other hydronics right here. How about we Wallies team up and produce teaching materials that Erin can sell here, to help keep this site going along with giving the next generation more real world experience than is available anywhere else? That could be fun! 😉

Yours, Larry