Leaking Steam Boiler In Vermont - Am I Screwed?

LegendsCreek

I had my annual oil steam boiler cleaning performed today by my oil company. They came and found me to tell me that there is a crack somewhere on the boiler and it was leaking (I never saw leaking prior to the service call today). I am not sure if something like this can even be patched or repaired, but they said that it's likely the boiler needs to be replaced. (photos below, showing where the leak is). I believe the boiler is 385k BTU.

The problem with replacement is that nobody will do it, not even the oil company that came to service it today. Last summer I asked them to quote it, and they wouldn't. I called dozens of companies to quote it and they either didn't return my call, or they said they don't replace steam boilers.

I'm not sure what to do at this point. My house is antique and 5000 square feet and has 30 or so beautiful steam radiators throughout. I just found out that the State of VT is enacting a new law, and will be charging $.70 per gallon of oil and propane to homeowners beginning January 2026 to force people to switch to heat pumps, but that they're likely going to be removing the propane tax because they "overreached".

I use Suburban for my propane and have 500 gallons in tanks hooked up to my main house, so if I switched and installed a propane steam boiler, I will likely have better luck finding someone to install it as Suburban is a national company and I don't think they'll refuse business (but I haven't called them yet).

I understand that it takes more propane to get the same amount of heat, and will cost more than oil per BTU, but I am wondering if that will be offset by the tax should they remove the propane from it. At this point I will be pretty desperate because I can't go the winter without heat in my house. I appreciate any advice you all have. Thanks

STEAM DOCTOR

First step is to determine if boiler is really leaking. Fill it up with water past the top of the boiler and look inside the firebox. If it's leaking you will see water dripping

STEAM DOCTOR

That said, boiler does not look that great

mattmia2

You need to find someone that knows steam to work on it or replace it. If the leak is between sections it is sometimes possible to fix that but the cost of going down that road then finding out you have to replace it and pay to investigate is usually not worth it.

You really need to find someone that knows steam well that will work in VT. I can't see enough of how the boiler is currently installed to tell if it is correct but the part I can see looks unusual.

It is a much better idea to find an installer that understands steam then get a contract with an oil or propane company after (or only contract for the fuel and maybe emergency service) and have someone that understands steam service it. If it isn't installed right it will work poorly and use a lot of fuel doing it. People come here asking how to fix bad installs constantly.

mattmia2

There are a number of contractors here in MA and NY, don't know if any of them work in VT.

Jamie Hall

Try @Tom_133 in Montpelier (click on the highlighted name to send a personal message) or, if you are in southern VT, it's remotely possible that @Charlie from wmass might help.

A very important point: it does take more propane, measured by the gallon, to make a certain amount of heat than it does oil (in fact, almost half again as much), because a gallon of propane does not have as much heat in it than oil.

Switching to a heat pump — whether air to water or air to air — is going to cost a fortune and, depending on where you live in Vermont, may not work anyway.

I will not comment on the $.70 tax, as this is a family friendly forum.

Charlie from wmass

You need a boiler. First thing is to do a radiator survey. Then you can move forward.

ethicalpaul

As a fellow steam homeowner I will reiterate what folks above have more or less said: Do not rely on an oil or propane supply company to know or care how to install your new steam boiler.

Find a person or company who works with steam (regardless of fuel), such as the suggested contractors above. Make sure they measure and add up your radiators to find out what size boiler to get. Don't trust them if they say "we'll just replace it with a modern one of the same size".

If your boiler is leaking (and I see no reason to disbelieve it), it was already leaking before the service…don't blame them for that…but maybe it can hold on through this heating season (although possibly less efficiently since it will be sending some steam out the chimney.

Did you see any sign of larger volumes of water replenishment last winter?

Wasted steam can be minimized by ensuring your boiler stays very low pressure (like under 1/4 psi). Of course with a leak, it might be unlikely to see any significant pressure anyway.

I would try any number of patchwork schemes to hold off having to make a decision too quickly…we're talking a lot of money here and you want to make a good decision with a good contractor.

On the bright side, it looks like that boiler had a long productive life.

Charlie from wmass

@ethicalpaul I fully agree with you that boiler did not start leaking at the service. I would even wager that the boiler didn't even start leaking this year. We all know it's not going to leak any less if it keeps being used. How farther North are you?

LegendsCreek

Thanks for the comments everyone! I would absolutely love to find someone who can help with this boiler when things arise. @Charlie from wmass , I did reach out to you last year at the advice of this forum but you told me you don't service my area. I am in Londonderry, VT and I think you are a bit further into MA. I also reached out to the other suggestion at one point last year but didn't hear back.

The problem is that nobody I call is helping me, so I can't turn to anyone for service as things happen (I called every single number I could find, even the "steam experts" my oil company referred me to). My oil company does employ 2 people who they say are steam veterans, one of whom has always been very helpful, but neither of them commented after the guy they sent out to quote the replacement refused to issue the quote.

You're all right about the leaks though. After getting in there with a flashlight, it looks like there's been moisture there for some time, but the technicians that came out today didn't actually show me where they saw it leaking from. When they left, they turned off power, and water supply to the boiler and I now have no heat. They said someone with expertise on steam would call me to set up a time to come out, hopefully next week.

mattmia2

What about @New England SteamWorks ? Do they not have a license in VT?

Charlie from wmass

I don't think that New England steamworks travels that far. But maybe they know somebody up there.

Grallert

This is a real dilemma. I have no idea how capable you are but this might be something you tackle your self with the aid of some friends. The diagrams are relatively easy to understand and the parts are likely relatively easy to get. The real issue might just be that everything is really heavy. The first thing you'll want or need regardless of who does the work is a heat load. insist on it. You'll need to know how many sqft of steam your system wants not much more not much less. There are plenty of sights for this information and how to acquire it. Oil or gas? that's your call. Hire some one to set that end up and hire an electrician to wire it. You'll find remote help here.

Charlie from wmass

Contact again I will be in ascutney Vermont next week perhaps I can swing over in the evening.

Intplm.

@LegendsCreek Bummer that the boiler is kaput. To buy some time and continue to heat your home, I recommend using a "boiler seal" chemical, or an equivalent to get you through the heating season. See below.

I have used this for both commercial and residential steam boilers through the years with great success. Do this first and breathe a little easier.

From the sound of things. You are having issues getting folks to work on your boiler as needed. Try and find a company to add this to your boiler. It works most of the time and is made for what you are currently going through.

I recently added some to my sister's home to get her through the winter and allow her to get her finances in order for the replacement. It worked wonderfully. Check it out.

pecmsg

those are the pictures AFTER the maintenance?

STEAM DOCTOR

Would never recommend using any sort of boiler sealant. The boiler sealant can seal pipes the same way it can seal a hole in the boiler. If that happens, you are really in trouble.

LegendsCreek

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1809646#Comment_1809646

Thanks for the info! I've tackled pretty much every sort of project myself including gas lines, pipe fitting, mini splits, and electrical. The zoning where I live allows for it. That said, I've never replaced a boiler. I'm certain I could handle it if I had the time and resources to do it, but I'm not sure replacing it would be as simple as removing the old one, and putting a new one in it's place (the sizes are not the same I think). Am I wrong about that?

To get a heat load, id measure every steam radiator in the house, correct? I did it last year for my oil company and may still have the notes.

LegendsCreek

Yes indeed. They never really do much. Usually spend a half hour down there, doing what, no idea.

EBEBRATT-Ed

It is sad that in some areas that the younger generation will not/cannot do a steam boiler replacement. I used to do some work in VT but am retired now.

@Charlie from wmass is likely your best bet but it looks like a 2 hour drive

If you strike out or Charlie can't do it you might try calling FW WEbb they are a supply house with branches in VT and ask for the branch manager they may know some contractors that do steam. (I wouldn't get my hope up with them.)

The other one you might call is Blodgett Supply they used to have branches in Rutland and a couple other locations.

Adding a tax to oil and propane? Seems like a bad deal. I suppose MA will try that next. Wouldn't Suprise me.

Steamhead

Another giveaway to rich folks.

And I have to assume the stated cost of a heat pump installation assumes existing ductwork and at least a 200-amp electrical service……………….

Jamie Hall

OK. Trigger warning. But. The complete and total disregard of the flatlanders who moved into Vermont with their fancy cars and fancy clothes to go skiing, and then remade it in their green image for the people who lived and worked in the State is a warning to the rest of the country.

ethicalpaul

poor @LegendsCreek ’s thread. That’s what I feel sorry for 😂

dabrakeman

Used to love VT. Lived there in my youth. Grandfather and Uncle had farms in NE VT. Can remember to this day my grandfather lamenting to me in the car one day (probably in ~1970) that the "hippies" were taking over Hardwick. Guess they went on and took over the government.

Yes you need a new boiler and yes someone qualified like Charlie from wmass should install it but if you need heat in the meantime then I would want to better understand what level of a leak I have and whether I could limp along for any time. As others have said fill it up and check for leaks cold. You can also fire it up and assess water level and water feeder activity during and post cycles. I would not leave it alone though. The danger is having the boiler fire dry without water. Best to first make sure your low water cutoff is working. Test it by firing up the boiler and draining water. The lwc should shut down the boiler before the water gets to the bottom of the site glass.

HeatingHelp.com

Just a reminder to keep the discussion related to helping with the OP's problem and not views on state politics. Thanks.

GW

If Charlie is jammed up, i could do it. Probably need a local oil dude to do the oil permitting (I am MA licensed)

LegendsCreek

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1809697#Comment_1809697

Thank you! I did speak with @Charlie from wmass last night about the property and he said he will reach out when in my area. The boiler is in my basement, which has ground level access through a standard entry door.

I own heavy machinery for unloading pallets and such, so I could order the replacement boiler online and have it delivered and ready. I'd be fine with just cutting out the old boiler, moving it off the slab a few feet, and leaving it there for me to deal with it later as to not waste anyone's time.

As far as getting the new boiler into the basement, I have no idea what kind of equipment is required to move something that heavy, but I'll rent or buy whatever is required.

I'll also have a second person to help with any heavy lifting, and am happy to assist the entire installation with whatever is needed. I do my own black iron pipe work (never gone over 3/4"), basic plumbing, electrical, and a bunch of other things. I also really want to learn so it would be great to help, and I appreciate the offer to help from both you and Charlie!

GW

Super, sounds like you’re on the road to success. I recall that he works by himself, which amazes me. Some of the stuff is quite heavy. We have all the tools and goods for heavy stuff

Intplm.

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1809657#Comment_1809657

And I would. But I am not recommending just "any sort" of boiler sealant. The one I pictured in my original post has never plugged pipes or controls that have said pipes connected. Some do, but this one has not.

It's like anything else. If you follow the directions it won't cause trouble. I would do this to help the customer with confidence and in good faith. Less screwed is the goal so they do not have to go without heat, and temporarily stop the leaks until a replacement can be accomplished.

LegendsCreek

Hey guys! Just following up. I wasn't able to reply over the weekend because I was buttoning up another project on my property. I got a return call from my oil company this afternoon. They told me they will no longer be servicing the boiler, and will not be installing a new boiler. They claim it's too big of a job for them yet they're the largest oil supplier in Vermont. I explained that they left me without heat, and that the heat was working prior to their "annual cleaning", and he said "sorry I can't help you". So now I am stuck without heat even from a leaking boiler, and not sure what to do. Perhaps the chemical recommended by @Intplm. will hold me over until the boiler can be replaced?

As far as the replacement goes, I will do whatever it takes, haha. I wont let my oil company win this battle, but I do of course now need to find a new oil supplier because I won't give them another dime.

leonz

I kicked suburban to the curb 9 years after the 4th time they let me run out of fuel.

You can bypass the issue with the State of Vermont and tell them to mind their own business and purchase a small coal stoker boiler for making dry steam for your home with pea anthracite coal and also make all your domestic hot water during the heating season.

I am sending you a PM.

pecmsg

A lot of contractors only want small jobs.
get it replaced.
you can still us the oil companie.

AdmiralYoda

Ugh. I'm in MA and surprised this hasn't happened to us sooner. We have a program called "Mass Save" where over the years they have subsidized HVAC upgrades to improve efficiency and reduce fossil fuel use.

Over the years they have reduced the incentives for improvements on fossil fuel burning appliances while focusing more on electric based appliances like heat pumps.

Starting in 2025 (or maybe 2026) they won't offer any incentives except for the electric stuff. On paper it is tempting because the incentive is quite high….but imagine the problems once thousands of 100+ year old homes are converted to heat pumps and have crappy heat in the dead of winter and a $2k electricity bill!

In many towns, mostly closer to Boston you are not allowed to install fossil fuel based appliances if you are building a new home, or even some complete remodels.

It is coming….

SlamDunk

@LegendsCreek I'm not sure you can hang this on the oil company. They found an issue and told you about it. Boilers will leak for a variety of reasons, all you have to do is perform a search on this site to find hundreds of threads.

And the difficulty finding someone to do the replacement and fire it up for you is another topic that would yield hundreds more threads.

Continue your search for a pro. It will be worth it. To hold you over, go ahead and try a sealant but don't stop looking for a contractor. The sealant might fail in January and the hole could be bigger and, you will be screwed for real!

Charlie from wmass

@AdmiralYoda all new construction in Massachusetts has to be fossil fuel free. Not just near Boston or Northampton.

LegendsCreek

I think I am going to hold off on the leak sealer. Charlie has offered to come look, and I am going to start today with measurements of all the radiators for a BTU calculation. In the meantime, I have a ventless propane heater that warms the living room (but does nothing for the kitchen or bedrooms), and I've got electric space heaters which will get me buy until we sort out what to do.

Regarding the oil supplier, It's just the way they treated me when they called and refused to help me. It wasn't friendly. I always chose to stay with them, even though they're the most expensive, because I have an appreciation for good service rather than saving a few bucks. I can't keep paying them for oil after that phone call.

I'll also add that a few months ago I had them come out to replace a piece of return steam pipe that I had patched due to a pinhole leak. It was 2" black iron, and about 15 feet long. When they were installing it, I saw them out in the yard taping and doping the threads to put the union on, and one guy was holding the pipe between his thighs, which the other one was tightening it with a pipe wrench. I ran out and offered a pipe vice tripod that was passed down to me after my grandfather died, but it was already too late for this particular union. Sure enough after I fired up the boiler, it was leaking at that union. So the service has also gone downhill, and when someone else pointed out above after seeing the photo from my "annual cleaning" that it didn't look like they ever cleaned anything, so I don't know exactly what I've been paying them for.

SlamDunk

all good reasons to be grateful they wont replace the boiler! I hope it works out and you get a great install. I wouldn't want anything but steam in VT!