Electric steam boiler

JayDoo

Hi all
We have a project that requires 2No. electric steam boilers (approx. 600Kg/hr each) to be connected into an existing gas fired steam boiler system in a hospital. The purpose is to provide back up in case the gas supply fails to the main boilers. The distribution side etc. will remain the same, and we just provide additional electric steam boilers with the necessary ancillaries. Does anyone foresee any issues? Thanks in advance.

EBEBRATT-Ed

The electric elements tend to get gunked up over time especially if a lot of make up water is used.
If they get gunked up they will burn out quickly so my advise would be to have a aintenance plant to remove the elements and clean them often.

Also, consult with the boiler mfg for the best quality elements available for steam use

Derheatmeister

If you adhere to the VDI 2035 no minerals will be present and therefore the elements will not become "Gunked up"..
We have had talks with one of the larger Electric boiler manufactures about this and they may include this in the system fluid recommendations.

jumper

A lot of kva standing by.

AlfredRose

Am thinking electric steam has future potential and that research and development of same should be a serious priority in our country. If fusion power plants become reality, (they are getting close ), the energy will be there. I think a different way besides water heater type elements would be needed for conversion, (because of scaling as mentioned above), plus a new type of pipe that would not deteriorate over time. With enough attention and time I think steam heat will make a comeback. However, until such time comes, be sure to have the big generators, (also mentioned above), there when you need them. I do not see fossil fuel going away anywhere in the near future but I think it's days are numbered.

pecmsg

So how does your plan get the power from the plant to my house?
my pipes are over 100 years young and still sound. 

Jamie Hall

The problem with electric steam boilers, @AlfredRose , isn't the technology for the boilers. That's there, and well understood by engineers. The problem is two fold: first, where is the energy to come from? You mention fusion, and I'm hopeful about that, and there is nuclear, but the green crowd aren't interested in that. So where does it come from -- without it's own terrific environmental damage. The other, as @pecmsg mentioned, is how does it get from the source to the point of use? I can't think of anywhere in the developed world which has an electrical distribution grid which is even remotely adequate -- and making the increases in the capacity of the grid required is not going to be easy or cheap.

Then there are places with really wild eyed regulations to convert all transportation to electric within a decade or so. Again some of the technology is available, but only for one mode (rail) -- but the cost is astronomical and the power sources aren't available.

jumper

For emergency standby; obvious standby (pun if that intentional) are boilers that can utilize fuel stored onsite. If fire marshal limits LP or LPG or heating kerosene then go coal. Coal storage is least expensive. When we had industry steam boilers were operated 24/7. Critical equipment like ventilators were steam operated although a steam driver is far more expensive than an electric motor. One would suppose that modern hospitals would be required to be equally reliable. Instead laws require standby electric generators even when electricity is generated onsite. After Katrina and Fukishima you'd think somebody somewhere would speak up about emergency measures.

AlfredRose

The electrical grids at present I do not think could handle rechargers for electric vehicles, or so electricians have told me. Am thinking years into the future, long after I've gone up the chimney. From what little I understand about fusion reactors, they would operate a lot longer than the uranium reactors operating today. Plus hydrogen is the most common element in the universe, or so I've read. Not sure how Nikola Tesla planned to transmit electricity with out wires, a lot of his papers disappeared after his death, but I don't doubt that it won't happen some day considering all of his achievements. I live near a U.S. Navy Base and a large shipyard that still operate steam plants. The shipyard has been operating since the early 1900's and has some very fascinating and large wall hung heating units. They are no longer used but they are still there and could probably be used again if needed. The Navy base has been around for a long time also and still uses steam to heat many of their buildings and just upgraded their underground piping system with ultra insulated pipe. Both facilities are located in Southeastern Connecticut.

dko

I read recently we (NYC) will be getting a bunch of electricity via power line all the way from Canada.. wonder how that's going. Congrats to whoever won that bid.

109A_5

Hello @dko,

dko said:

I read recently we (NYC) will be getting a bunch of electricity via power line all the way from Canada.. wonder how that's going. Congrats to whoever won that bid.

That rumor ? (US side), which is nothing new, in fact quite old, has it that most of the the power generated at Niagara Falls, NY mostly goes to NYC, Canada is not far away, follow the wires. Only the grid operators know for sure.

How many large power plants still in operation in upstate NY ? Mechanicville, Oswego ? Many coal fired units have been retired.

Mechanicville, fun stuff or stupidity ? And they are not the only ones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanicville_Hydroelectric_Plant
"In 2021, the plant started mining bitcoin with a portion of the hydro-power energy. Because running a plant that still uses all of the original 1800s machinery, mining bitcoin has been three times more profitable than selling electricity back to the national grid."

Jamie Hall

dko said:

I read recently we (NYC) will be getting a bunch of electricity via power line all the way from Canada.. wonder how that's going. Congrats to whoever won that bid.

Maybe not for long. Quebec Hydro -- which is providing that power -- recently woke up to the fact that they need it themselves. There is talk (en Francais, s'il vous plait) of terminating the contract.

Rusty2

Unfortunately the people to talk to about this aren't even in the United States. If you want to talk to the "boss" who makes the decisions, it's an international phone call (certain fees and taxes may apply). Something called "National Grid plc" in the year 2000 bought control of electric production/ distribution for New York, Mass & Rhode Island. National Grid plc is a British company that's headquartered in London, England. In 2008 a Spanish company called Iberdrola bought control of electricity for Maine through a Canadian company called Avangrid. Somehow when we weren't looking us peasants have been colonized all over again. In my opinion it is preposterous that decisions for something as vital as the production and supply of electricity in the United States are made by the heads of foreign corporations. It's a good deal when you can control another country's electricity and decide to take the world "electric". I'll bet you could make a whole lot of money, especially after engineering a captive audience. Just something to think about next time you plug in your Tesla and get that "feel good" feeling.

ethicalpaul

If we didn't want foreign companies to buy our utilities, I guess we shouldn't have privatized them in the first place but some people had other ideas.

Jamie Hall

Or maybe, just maybe, stop shuttering our own power sources? Just close most of our own native power plants and then go begging to some foreign country? And then complain about what they do? There's a very limited future in that approach.

jumper

Historically neither generating or distributing electricity has been a positive net cash business in North America. Long ago growth "papered over" negative cash. Will electrifying transportation and heating will paper over again? I doubt that.