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Help with York Furnace "Ignition Lockout Due to Retries"

mortyd
mortyd Member Posts: 8
edited January 24 in Gas Heating
Hey all! I'm new to trouble shooting furnaces. I have a York furnace that isn't working. It gets all the way to the point where the ignitor glows red hot (I replaced the ignitor already) and then for some reason sometimes there is no ignition. I thought it was a faulty gas valve because I couldn't hear it click open but the wires were sending 24 V to it so I replaced that. It worked fine for a week then stopped working again. I thought the new gas valve must have been faulty too, so I replaced it again. It works sporadically--sometimes the gas valve clicks open and the flame lights perfectly. Sometimes it doesn't light up and then it locks out due to retries. The red light blinks seven times for "Ignition Lockout Due to Retries." Every time I test the voltage to the gas valve it is 24 V. I haven't caught it not getting voltage. I did use a manometer to see if it was opening and I couldn't hear the click. It actually is not opening sometimes. What else could it be if it is not the ignitor or gas valve? Is it possible that two new gas valves are bad? Is it a short in the wires from the control board and I just can't catch the gas valve not getting voltage? If it were the pressure switch or something else the red light would blink a different number than 7 right? Could this be a control board issue where it just isn't sending the signal to open the gas valve? Thanks for the help!



Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,064
    It could that the board is not letting sufficient current to the valve sporadically.

    Check all connections and grounds.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    mortyd
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,925
    Did you use enough pipe dope? Looks like there is an abundance of white milky residue at the point where the gas valve connects to the pipes. What is the possibility that there is a glob of that stuff is messing up the inside of that control?
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    pecmsg
  • mortyd
    mortyd Member Posts: 8
    I thought about the dope too. When I changed out the valve the second time I looked inside the valve and no evidence of dope getting inside. I applied the dope starting about half way up the screw so any excess was expressed outward as I tightened. You are right that I need to wipe that off and clean it up a bit.
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 10,278
    Do you have steady gas pressure to the inlet of the valve?
    Is the vent for your outside regulator free of ice?

    I had this situation once and the NG reg outside was frozen.
  • mortyd
    mortyd Member Posts: 8
    edited January 25
    I have another gas heater that works and the gas stove works, so pressure is good on supply side (although I will verify with manometer to sanity check). I'm in Houston so nothing is frozen. If I can prove that the gas valve is getting current and is not opening, that should prove it is a problem with the valve, correct?
    Does anyone have a suggestion for another replacement gas valve that would be more reliable? Here is a picture of the old valve and the new valve (I switched the valve off for the install, and switched it back on afterward so that is not the problem):



  • mortyd
    mortyd Member Posts: 8
    edited January 26
    Update: So I wiggled the wires going into the control board at the top left wiring harness right as the ignitor was glowing hot and the gas valve clicked open and the furnace lit up. When I wiggle it again a few seconds later the gas valve slams shut and the flame dies out. So, the problem is definitely not the gas valve. I repeated the experiment again and got the furnace to start by wiggling those wires. So, what do you think I should do to repair it definitively. How do you narrow it down any further than a bad connection in a clump of wires? Should I replace just the wires going to the gas valve? Do I replace all the wires in that one harness with a replacement harness? Do you think I should replace the whole control board and run new wires too? What would you do?


  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 713
    remove the control board and inspect the back side of the board. there is a chance that the board is bad. flipping it over will expose the parts that are burnt out. its not uncommon to have burnt boards. new boards might come with new wiring harness as most boards have been updated.
  • jpm659er
    jpm659er Member Posts: 16
    You may need a new board. Double check the connections at that 9 pin Molex plug. But also check the thermostat connections that are nearby. Maybe try a jumper at thermostat connections and do your wiggle test.
    Also, does the igniter continue to glow a couple seconds when you get a voltage reading at the valve or does it immediately turn off?
  • mortyd
    mortyd Member Posts: 8
    I measured the gas pressure going into the valve at 6.96 inH20. It stays at 0.05 on the other side of valve unless the valve opens. The igniter glows for about 10 seconds, then I can hear the board click as it tries to send voltage to the valve. Sometimes the valve gets voltage and sometimes not. If the gas valve doesn't open after about six seconds of the board attempting to send voltage to the gas valve (probably the flame sensor letting the board know there was no ignition and about seconds 10-16 of the ignitor glowing hot), the ignitor cycles off and stops glowing. If the valve gets voltage and then the valve clicks opens and the heater lights up no problem. I'll pull the board out soon and look at the back of it for damage and check the wire connections more closely. I appreciate everyone's help!
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,151
    Solder joint is probably broken on the board where one of the pins/terminals is soldered on or at the relay. Make sure the board isn't shorting to something behind it too.
    mortyd
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 20,425
    Before you panic about new boards -- check that connector. Wouldn't be the first time that one or more of the pins and sockets were loose, and that's a pretty easy fix.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    mortyd
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,925
    Take a picture of the loose solder joint on the back of the PC board. You can try to solder it NOT WITH A BLOW TORCH with a soldering iron to fix the bad connection, or replace the board. My money is on the #9 pin. of the Molex.
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    mortyd
  • mortyd
    mortyd Member Posts: 8
    Woke up to a cold house again this morning. I don't see anything wrong with the pins, but I noticed a darkened area on the back of the board in the top left. I guess I'll replace the board and see if that solves it.




  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 20,425
    Have you actually checked that Molex for pin retention and socket grip? If any of the sockets are even slightly loose you can get quite an assortment of errors, which will go away (for a while) if you wiggle the plug aggressively or the wires immediately connected to it. Happens in modern cars all the time -- no reason why it shouldn't happen to a boiler control now and then. Takes about 15 minutes to check and fix, and the cost is for a pin testing gadget (really cheap).
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    mortyd
  • mortyd
    mortyd Member Posts: 8
    edited January 27
    I think you are absolutely right that the socket is loose and that is causing the shorting there. I've never repaired the pins on a connection like that. Because it is intermittent I'm worried about knowing when it is totally "fixed." I think the furnace is about 20 years old so I'm guessing the board didn't have much life left anyway. My family is really wanting a reliably warm house, and the in-laws are visiting tomorrow so I just bit the bullet and grabbed a board kit that will solve the problem definitively. Probably overkill, but new wires and a new board should solve the bad connection problem. I really appreciate everyone's help on this one! It was really hard to find the problem.




  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,151
    You picture of the solder side of the board isn't in sharp enough focus to see if it is ok or not. there are a couple solder joints that look questionable. The way to test is to flex the board or wiggle the component. If the joint is bad you will see it break at the part that looks like a crack. The darkened area is probably just heat from a power resistor at that location.
    jpm659er
  • mortyd
    mortyd Member Posts: 8
    OK, new board installed and heater fired up first try! Thanks again for all your comments and help! I really appreciate you.
    SuperTechEricPetersonjpm659er