Gas valves condemned

EdTheHeaterMan

ChrisJ said:

Mad Dog_2 said:

Nothing revealed the most miniscule of gas leaks than mercury gauges. The worst (Hardest to find) gas leak I ever fixed was in a residential home believe it or not, although I chased leaks around for days in Commercial buildings. We were legalizing the existing natural gas system, found several leaks, fixed them and as they do - the smaller leaks persist until you chase them ALL down. After about the 4th day of repairs and pumping up and soaping, I found it!!!! It was the tiniest sand pit hole in the back, upper side of a 1" Malleable tee that was as close as you can get against the floor joists and subfloor....BRUTAL! Mad Dog

You sure love your mercury and lead don't you Mad?

Why exactly is a mercury gauge better than a water manometer?

Mercury switches I can easily see many benefits with. A mercury gauge not so much.

I bet @Mad Dog_2 has a stash of Asbestos pipe insulation hidden somewhere, nothing works better on steam pipes!

jpm659er

Latest update of situation: 
I received text messages from the owners uncle who I had been meeting at the house.
   After the owner of the home called again with concerns about the condemned valves that were two and three years old, the gas company came back out, tested, and passed all appliances and piping. Gas back on.
  Situation is apparently resolved.
i’d like to thank you all for your helpful and knowledgeable inputs. And also for the
sarcasm 😄.  I always learn a lot from the wall. 

Tim McElwain

The gas company eventually gets it right when they send an experienced tech to check things out. Sometimes the first guy is just a meter man and not a tech.

Mad Dog_2

Yes I do, Chris.    Watching the crown on a mercury Column distort from a perfect crown when you have the tiniest leak Is as a
Visually accurate as it gets.  Water and air are fine, but I tend to stick with superior methods I have learned and discovered along the way.  Mad 🐕 Dog

mattmia2

water has a meniscus too

Mad Dog_2

Cartilage??  Do you mean a "crown"?  Mad 🐕 Dog 

ChrisJ

Mad Dog_2 said:

Cartilage??  Do you mean a "crown"?  Mad 🐕 Dog 

This is from my Taylor pool testing kit.

It's called the meniscus and water has it just as much as mercury.

Not everything dangerous is automatically better.  Or cool for that matter.

ratio

ChrisJ said:

Not everything dangerous is automatically better.  Or cool for that matter.

Yeah, but mercury…

Mad Dog_2

I see, never heard that term used that way in my hundreds of plumbing and heating books , but thanks for the edification!  However, Mercury holds a nice , perfectly convex crown when the pipe being tested has zero leaks,  opposite of your illustration.  Therefore, any leak, however slight, will malform the perfect 👑 crown and you visually see this instantly, knowing you're not ready for your inspection just yet!   So, what should we have abnormal fear of and ban next?  Fiberglass Insulation?  Cast Iron?? Lead pans and lead bends? All metal piping? Wood?  Brass faucets?   Cow's Milk? Beef? Soda? White Castles?  Not everything Plastic, futuristic and the latest new product is good, safe or cool......to each his own,, right??   Mad Dog 

mattmia2

water has a meniscus too

ChrisJ said:

Mad Dog_2 said:

Cartilage??  Do you mean a "crown"?  Mad 🐕 Dog 

This is from my Taylor pool testing kit.

It's called the meniscus and water has it just as much as mercury.

Not everything dangerous is automatically better.  Or cool for that matter.

Interestingly, water has a concave meniscus because the adhesion to the vessel is stronger than the cohesion in the water and mercury has a convex meniscus because the cohesion withing the mercury is stronger than the adhesion to the vessel. In either case you simply have to measure at the center.

ChrisJ

Mad Dog_2 said:

I see, never heard that term used that way in my hundreds of plumbing and heating books , but thanks for the edification!  However, Mercury holds a nice , perfectly convex crown when the pipe being tested has zero leaks,  opposite of your illustration.  Therefore, any leak, however slight, will malform the perfect 👑 crown and you visually see this instantly, knowing you're not ready for your inspection just yet!   So, what should we have abnormal fear of and ban next?  Fiberglass Insulation?  Cast Iron?? Lead pans and lead bends? All metal piping? Wood?  Brass faucets?   Cow's Milk? Beef? Soda? White Castles?  Not everything Plastic, futuristic and the latest new product is good, safe or cool......to each his own,, right??   Mad Dog 

Lead and white castles get my vote.

Larry Weingarten

Hi @Mad Dog_2 , You forgot to mention water. Too much water has been known to kill! Living is risky business, but we're still here. Dan has written some nifty things about riding bicycles without helmets and such, but we survived anyhow.

Yours, Larry

ChrisJ

Larry Weingarten said:

Hi @Mad Dog_2 , You forgot to mention water. Too much water has been known to kill! Living is risky business, but we're still here. Dan has written some nifty things about riding bicycles without helmets and such, but we survived anyhow.

Yours, Larry

Many didn't.
That's why rules changed.

I ended up with 21 stiches in my head when I was 8 from a bike accident and no helmet.
It wasn't fun.

When you see obvious problems you try to change to solve those problems and "back in my day we used to...." isn't an excuse to continue.

Do people go too far? YES. Often.

But bike helmets are a good thing as are hearing and eye protection.

rick in Alaska

According to the code, you can not test with a gas, but I did when I had a leak I couldn't find. (these are all in small houses). I would pressure it up with propane and use my sniffer to find any leaks. That thing will find the smallest bubble, where as I never had good luck with soapy water. Also, I know, it shouldn't be done, but I knew it would only have to be a very tiny leak, so I wasn't worried about the gas leakage. I highly recommend a gas sniffer.
Rick

EdTheHeaterMan

I'm tired of reading this thread. The problem has been solved over 10 comments ago... I'm going to go take a leak.

ChrisJ

EdTheHeaterMan said:

I'm tired of reading this thread. The problem has been solved over 10 comments ago... I'm going to go take a leak.

Well.
That'll kill all of 15 seconds.

Mad Dog_2

As stupid as I feel and look wearing a bike helmet, I KNOW I don't need ANOTHER concussion. a dozen are enough - me thinks! Ain't gonna live without my White Castles Mad Dog

ethicalpaul

Fun is fun, but lead is a killer. Companies just kept using it, almost for no reason at all, despite knowing it was a killer and that it was harming millions of Americans. And they weren't going to stop either until the government made them. Their international divisions are still using it in countries with less of those evil regulations, and it's making the world stupider.

The last of the leaded gas was only used up in 2021 apparently, the gift that keeps on giving.

jpm659er

A gas company manager called me back today.
He said, for a “gas turn on“ they will pressurize The entire system at no more than 10” wc. Usually 5 to 7”. If they see it drop about .1 to .2 inches (Depending on pipe volume) in a “couple minutes”, they will start shutting off valves to try to isolate the leak. He didn’t give exact guidelines. They do this routinely. Many times a day. If there’s a tiny amount of pressure loss, they may let it go. It’s a judgment call.

ethicalpaul

Ice down the pipes before they get there?

Seriously, though, they probably know what they're doing! Have you tested the pipes and/or replaced the valves?

mattmia2

ethicalpaul said:

The last of the leaded gas was only used up in 2021 apparently, the gift that keeps on giving.

I think they still sell leaded gas for certain aviation engines.

Mad Dog_2

Lead has been virtually eliminated from 95/5 solder and fluxes, you can use lead solders ONLY on heat and waste, shower pans , Paint Lead Free,, Lead free gas, thermostats and controls..  valves are now lead free and REALLY SUCK to try to solder!  Faucets, et cetera. We're not consuming it anymore.  Like Asbestos, they are natural minerals and metals mined directly from the earth.   All natural!   To this date in time, I can't recall better, more effective and durable materials than lead and Asbestos.  
I don't think for fireproofing and thermal insulation any material can match it. I marvel at the Deadman who came up with these materials and crafted them for fellow man's use. So clever they were.   Same with lead. Once again kids...do not eat the lead and mercury. Do not disturb the Asbestos and don't inhale and you'll be fine!  Mad Dog 🐕 

Mad Dog_2

Shhhh!!! Don't tell the EPA and OSHA....Mad 🐕 Dog

ChrisJ

Mad Dog_2 said:

Lead has been virtually eliminated from 95/5 solder and fluxes, you can use lead solders ONLY on heat and waste, shower pans , Paint Lead Free,, Lead free gas, thermostats and controls..  valves are now lead free and REALLY SUCK to try to solder!  Faucets, et cetera. We're not consuming it anymore.  Like Asbestos, they are natural minerals and metals mined directly from the earth.   All natural!   To this date in time, I can't recall better, more effective and durable materials than lead and Asbestos.  
I don't think for fireproofing and thermal insulation any material can match it. I marvel at the Deadman who came up with these materials and crafted them for fellow man's use. So clever they were.   Same with lead. Once again kids...do not eat the lead and mercury. Do not disturb the Asbestos and don't inhale and you'll be fine!  Mad Dog 🐕 

Uranium, Thorium, Polonium, Radium and Radon are all natural!
Natural or not, they kill you.

"Natural" is completely irrelevant and is constantly used these days to sell items and suggest they're safe. Dirt and roaches are natural too, but I don't want them in my food.

Long Beach Ed

Leaded paint is still used by government entities and railroads, which are exempt from the ban. It wears and protects considerably better on steel and iron bridges and structures.

ethicalpaul

If that's true then shame on them

EBEBRATT-Ed

@ChrisJ

They used mercury gauges in the old days because the test for low pressure gas lines (at least where I am is 3-5 psi. That would be an 84" manometer or something. Mercury is about 12 times heavier than water

EBEBRATT-Ed

On commercial jobs with a lot of pipe and higher test pressures (as high as 100psi) on low pressure gas (less than 12"wc) if it was a long run, we would try to test with nitrogen which still may change with temperature but a lot less than air.

On leaks that were difficult to find with soap & water or bubbles in the old days a bit of refrigerant mixed with the air or nitrogen and an electronic leak detector did the trick

mattmia2

i'm not sure that using refrigerant as a tracer now would be illegal

Mad Dog_2

Once again.  I would suggest donning your MOPP gear whenever you need to handle the poloniumn, uranium, PU-238, Radium et al and always wash your hands with good soap and hot 🔥 water when you're done, kiddies!  . Last, don't eat those elements and you'll be fine!!  Mad Dog 🐕 🤣 

Mad Dog_2

Its a wonder, ANYTHING gets done these days with all things and items we're NOT allowed to use and rules and the red-tape compliance obstacle course you have
To contend with. A Great short book I read 25 or so years ago when I was THIS close to spending the 100 G-s and another 3 years in Law School.  "THE DEATH OF COMMON SENSE...HOW LAW IS SUFFOCATING 🇺🇸 AMERICA'  By Philip K Howard, Esquire.  Read it!   As my old school, tough as nails- US Navy (Vietnam-Era) Veteran Father in Law Don (Who actually has a Degree in chemistry and ran the drinking water department in One of the largest, most populated Counties in the USA, says about all this hysteria and fear and this generation 🙄 in his Jerry Stiller sorta way: "Matty!!! With thinking like this...WERE GONNA LOSE THE NEXT WAR!!!!!!"  Think about that.   Now THAT
Thoroughly  Scares me....✌ Mad Dog 🐕