High temp electric water heater thermostat

426hemi

I had to replace my hot water heater. The new one has a thermostat that only goes to 150 degrees. This is unusable for me need at least 180 deg water. Any replacement thermostats for a duel element single phase low voltage water heater that go to at least 180deg 

GroundUp

Why on Earth do you need 180 degree domestic water?

Jamie Hall

There are no legal thermostats available for domestic (residential) hot water heaters which go over 150. If you need 180 degree water, you need either a commercial hot water heater or you need a boiler.

426hemi

Well thanks for the info, I don’t have 3 phase power let alone 277/480 so a commercial heater is not going to happen. The old heater went up to 190 deg? I’m going to contact the manufacturer the new water heater is rated for 200 deg? I can only imagine how **** pissed people must me who have bought these new heaters are! 150 deg water is lucky to be 140 at the fixtures! Should not be allowed to call it a hot water heater if piss warm water is all it’s good for. 

pecmsg

Are you using this water heater as a Boiler?

JUGHNE

IIRC, electric WH tstats were available for dairy barns that might go up to 180 or near there.
Not a standard stock item at normal supply houses.
Usually could only get them from dairy equipment dealers.

ratio

An aquastat (possibly with a contactor) can control those elements just as easy as the onboard stat. I'd use a modulating Honeywell T775 with an SSR, but that's not going to be the cheapest solution.

AIUI, current mechanical codes require 120° at the point of use, with a hard fail if the temp exceeds that during an inspection. I'm sure the limited range is an attempt to keep Joe Homowner (& 6-Pack Handyman) from doing something dangerously illegal.

pecmsg

ASHRA recommends 140° minimum tank temp to kill legionnaires disease. Point of use 120° or less.

Larry Weingarten

Hi, There are ways to get hotter water, but I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the system that you don't get hot enough water. 140F will give you third degree burns in 5 seconds. Is there a cross connection in the lines, uninsulated pipe or pipe run underground? These things could cool the water down a lot.

Yours, Larry

Jamie Hall

The ideal -- and in some jurisdictions only legal -- for a residential hot water setup is to have the water heater set with a temperature of 140 F, and a thermostatic mixing valve on the output to control the fixture temperature to 120 F; this may mean, in the case of longer or uninsulated hot water piping a slightly higher temperature setting of the mixing valve. As @ratio notes, anything higher than that at the fixture is a condemable hot water system.

Certain residential applications, notably dishwashers, may have hotter water during operation. This will be met with built in heaters in the application. Some washing machines will also do this.

Commercial dishwashers have built in heaters for 160 F. As @JUGHNE noted, some dairy cleaning equipment also requires 160 F hot water; this may be provided by point of use boosters or by special hot water heaters. These applications are not approved for residential use.

Yes, there are ways to bypass all this, at least in some cases. However, at some risk of sounding like a grinch, your personal liability if you do so, and someone gets injured by excessively hot water, is extreme -- both civil and criminal. And, if it is found that a bypass or other arrangement to provide water at the tap over the code limit (120 F) is or was arranged, that is automatic liability; no further investigation is required and you will have no legal defence (nor insurance).

WMno57

I've seen high temp dairy water heaters at farm stores. Might have been either Blain's Farm and Fleet, or Mill's Fleet Farm. They can special order parts if they don't have in stock. Most farms are single phase.

ChrisJ

426hemi said:

Well thanks for the info, I don’t have 3 phase power let alone 277/480 so a commercial heater is not going to happen. The old heater went up to 190 deg? I’m going to contact the manufacturer the new water heater is rated for 200 deg? I can only imagine how **** pissed people must me who have bought these new heaters are! 150 deg water is lucky to be 140 at the fixtures! Should not be allowed to call it a hot water heater if piss warm water is all it’s good for. 

No one calls it a hot water heater. Right @Charlie from wmass ?
And most feel 130-140 is very hot, you can't keep your parts in it for more than a few seconds.

Is this for a commercial kitchen?

WMno57

ChrisJ said:

Is this for a commercial kitchen?

Based on the OPs username I'm guessing he is cleaning and preparing Elephant. Mother Mopar, the chefs best friend!

426hemi

I got a thermostat ordered. It’s not a commercial kitchen. It’s a house and as far as liability if someone is so stupid they hold there hand in hot water until they get a third degree burn they belong in a padded room with a helmet. We don’t have any building codes here and I can’t imagine living under such a dictatorship. If I was in some town that had such insane things as inspections and codes I’d move immediately. I live in a rural area thank god.  

pecmsg

Why do you need 180* water?

pecmsg

426hemi said:

I got a thermostat ordered. It’s not a commercial kitchen. It’s a house and as far as liability if someone is so stupid they hold there hand in hot water until they get a third degree burn they belong in a padded room with a helmet. We don’t have any building codes here and I can’t imagine living under such a dictatorship. If I was in some town that had such insane things as inspections and codes I’d move immediately. I live in a rural area thank god.  

It’s not a question of someone so “Stupid”, less then a second and your burned!

Jamie Hall

It's not a matter of codes and dictatorship, my good man. It's a matter of concern about other people. Good luck.

JUGHNE

So a relative visits with their toddler, that kid uses the sink or tub and ends up in ER.
Questions are asked, social workers are on board....this is someone's fault.
Then there are lawyers involved. Your homeowner's insurance is contacted, someone investigates the water temp and the insurance co. bows out, either immediately or next renewal cycle.

Seems like an unlikely scenario......or not?

GroundUp

Man, you sound like a treat to be around. 180 degree water will literally burn your skin off in 1 second. There is zero chance that you can wash your hands with even 140 degree water. So I'll ask one more time, WHY do you need 180 degree water in your house?

Derheatmeister

GroundUp said:

Man, you sound like a treat to be around. 180 degree water will literally burn your skin off in 1 second. There is zero chance that you can wash your hands with even 140 degree water. So I'll ask one more time, WHY do you need 180 degree water in your house?

IMO what we have here is the "Don't tread on me" attitude...Haha...
Who are you to tell me what to do?
If he wants to burn himself that is fine...But potentially others...that just plainly sucks and if something happens hopefully our justice system will take care of it..

hot_rod

I see HTP is promoting an electric tank with operating temperatures up to 170F. A mixing valve is standard equipment.
A small footprint solution to the larger capacity tanks.

Jamie Hall

No problem with that -- if the mixing valve is always installed.

mmorter

I want 180-190 myself and it to flow in a closed loop for a design for an extraction still i assume this is similar reason

GroundUp

mmorter said:

I want 180-190 myself and it to flow in a closed loop for a design for an extraction still i assume this is similar reason

Then buy a boiler.

JUGHNE

I used to get high temp tstats for standard electric water heaters from a dairy equipment supplier.

Dairy barns needed high temp water for cleaning pipelines and tank.

hot_rod

What temperature can a typical kitchen or lav faucet handle?

pecmsg

hot_rod said:

What temperature can a typical kitchen or lav faucet handle?

A lot more then a human can. 

Shaffer4267

Fun read on all the concerned people on such a simple question. I would like to set my water heater temperature to 180 degrees with a mixer valve on the output set to 140 degrees. I only heat my water when the sun is shining using excess solar production. Please no post with concerns for my safety!

hot_rod

A few times solar folks set the tanks to 180 F the t&p reliefs would dribble. Stratification would allow the top of the tank to reach 210, watch for that.
Also tank life drops considerably at higher storage tank temperatures, especially with glass lined tanks. I think Bock did a study on tank life expectancy at higher temperatures.

pecmsg

Shaffer4267 said:

Fun read on all the concerned people on such a simple question. I would like to set my water heater temperature to 180 degrees with a mixer valve on the output set to 140 degrees. I only heat my water when the sun is shining using excess solar production. Please no post with concerns for my safety!

No more then 120°F at point of use is the standard.

ASHRAE recommends 140°f for 1 hour to kill the Legionaries Bacteria anyway.

Eved

I have a situation that i am using a commercial dishwasher at home and it demands 180 degrees at point of use from the inlet. what could I do in that situation. It is for many families that why it is needed

pecmsg

pipe the dishwasher direct.

Larry Weingarten

Hi, To elaborate a bit, some dishwashers have built in, purpose built water heaters, or boosters. A booster can also be put inline before the dishwasher. This can be fed with 120F or whatever your hot water system runs at. This way, that hottest hot water is used only by the dishwasher and is not a scald risk elsewhere.

Yours, Larry

Karl Reynolds

Look at Hatco booster heaters.