A gentle plea

Jamie Hall

After some discussion with my confessor, I beg to offer a comment -- to all of us on The Wall, myself (perhaps particularly) included:

Some topics are by their nature politically highly charged -- the most recent being the New York State move to prohibit new fuel fired installations. It is almost inevitable that we as a group will have differing opinions, for various reasons, about the advisability of some of these topics, and it is right that we should have. Many of these opinions will be reflections of a wider range of personal philosophies.

But may I suggest (and @Erin Holohan Haskell and @DanHolohan , feel free to correct me!) that we try to avoid commenting on the desirability of this sort of thing? We are as a group, it seems to me, very caring and professionally engaged, working towards the best solutions or repairs for individuals, and we need to continue doing that. But there are other, perhaps better, forums for debating some of the underlying philosophical differences which we inevitably have.

I personally pledge not to comment on the political or philosophical advisability of this government action or another. Not that I don't have opinions; I do. But that doing so cannot help us help others as we need to.

Tom_133

Good points Jamie. I love to be able to come on this site and not discuss hot button topics like politics, or religion. Its a site for heating help and education to many who want to learn, and man have I learned a lot. Of course its not my decision but I prefer keeping it this way.

Thanks to all who keep this site up and running!

Tom

DanHolohan

Amen! Written into the original bylaws of The General Society of Mechanics and Tradesmen of the City of New is the declaration that members will never discuss political matters with each other. Our purpose has, since  1785, been benevolence. It has worked out perfectly. It’s a grand American model for getting along, and getting much done. Thanks, @Jamie Hall. 

Zman

It is ironic that I was responding to that very post just before I read this.

I agree that it is a slippery slope. At the same time, I do think that a group like this can add much-needed facts to the conversation. I have spent many hours on local energy code advisory committees where 95% of the group cannot understand pretty low-level math and rely only on what they have been told by often incorrect sources.

If any group can have a smart fact-based conversation on subjects like this, it would be the Heating Help group.

Larry Weingarten

Hi @Jamie Hall , It's introspective actions like you've just demonstrated that make this perhaps the most civil site on the internet. I agree that it's best for us to focus on what we do well, and can actually have a meaningful effect on. Thankyou!

Yours, Larry

HomerJSmith

The whole of the Universe consists of only two things, "The Truth and Resistance to the Truth."

I'm the Kid that pointed out that the King had no clothes. I will always hang on the side of Truth. Ya, Ya, I know what you're thinking, "What is Truth?" you say. If you don't know, you're sorely under educated.

Dan got it right. He plainly stated this Web sight is about HeatingHelp. That is what we do on this site, we discuss heating issues and we help those asking for it. There are other forums on the Web where political matters can be readily discussed.

Erin, should remain faithful to those two words, HeatingHelp. That's our mission statement.

That's my 2 cents worth and if you subtract 1 penny from it is worth 1 cents. I work cheap. But not too cheap

hot_rod

It this exact group that can influence lawmakers to make better informed decisions , on energy and HVAC related proposals 

jumper

I'm of two minds. Yes sex, politics, and/or religion drive many people postal.
On the other hand technical decisions made by politicians need to be reviewed.
Federal & state governments have resources to study such matters.
Municipal politico s just wing it. Often to distract from their failures.

nosirra1Arrison

@jumper - I agree that controversial government policies can and will effect the heating world. As I debate the boiler/heat pump choice, I am desperate for factual information on that front. I NEED information from both sides to draw educated conclusions as we forge ahead into the future. This may be a borderline area that the Mods will need to police. Hopefully we can as a group respectfully discuss facts and opinions. As Ron Burgundy would say..."Stay Classy HeatingHelp". This forum is an invaluable resource for us all. Thanks to those who created and keep this great group going.

JakeCK

My topic wasn't meant to start a political battle. I just felt the proposed NG ban was an important topic to discuss that affects everyone. Homeowners and those who install and maintain heating systems alike.

GW

Good stuff whatever keeps people feeling happy. I once gladly paid my fee to be a part of this national trades organization, for years. Oddly, they made a post about some certain situation that happened last year (absolutely nothing to do with HVAC). I posted a civil and polite opposing viewpoint. I received an email saying my post would not be loaded. I politely dropped out- “see ya”. 

Even with heating stuff some of y’all get pretty spicy. I don’t mind, but we all have a different level or appetite for confrontation. 

GW

Massachusetts is going wild in 2022 with electrification. $10,000 rebate to jump off fossil fuel (install mini splits). There’s gonna be some heartbreak going on, some contractors won’t adequately explain the ins and outs and what if’s (I’m quite sure)

I’m jumping in, gonna test my comm and contract writing skills this year

DanHolohan

It works best without the politics. See my post above about GSMT. 

Thanks, Gary. You did the right thing. 

Erin Holohan Haskell

Heating Help is turning 25 this year. Over that time, we've found that political debate online often leads to nastiness, rarely changes minds, and distracts from our mission. And if there's constant fighting on The Wall, it puts our small family business in jeopardy and pulls us away from that family if we need to break up fights at all hours. So for those reasons, we choose not to include politics here.

As we discuss our energy future, please keep this in mind and continue to be respectful of one another.

Thank you.

Larry Weingarten

After thinking about it a bit more, I’ll agree with @hot_rod that there are those here who can and have influenced the decisions that politicians make. I was a member of ASHRAE for years and I know they have a big influence on codes. So, if you have the patience for it, we certainly have the knowledge and experience here to make a difference.
Yours, Larry

DanHolohan

Please take what Erin says to heart. It’s the truth. Thanks to all of you. 

Condoman

Thank you all. I come here for knowledge, the politics I get from the firehose of media.

ChrisJ

The only part I don't understand about the whole NYC ng ban is why we needed 3 different threads on the same subject in 1 month.

Just seemed excessive.  Keep everything in the first discussion.

JakeCK

ChrisJ said:

The only part I don't understand about the whole NYC ng ban is why we needed 3 different threads on the same subject in 1 month.

Just seemed excessive.  Keep everything in the first discussion.

NYC vs NY State. The NYC ban is already passed, NY State has just been proposed. Considering the differences in people's attitude and geography between upstate NY vs NYC, it is a note worthy distinction. 

Example: NYC is in climate zone 4a, most of upstate NY is climate zone 6a. That'll make a difference with COP for sure.