Electric kickspace vs infrared overhead for tiny bathroom?

Jells

I have a small lav/shower with such small open floorspace I didn't think it worthwhile to install radiant under the tile, its only 15 sq ft of tile including the toilet. But I'm regretting doing nothing, it gets chilly. Unfortunately running hydronic from the boiler is impractical, there's no route to get the pipes there without major work.

So I was thinking I could run a new circuit to power either a kickspace heater under the vanity cab or one of those overhead infrared bulb heaters. I assume using the existing 20A circuit for that is not code, however the subpanel is right down the hall and I could pull up the carpet and subfloor for running the cable. But I've no experience with the efficacy of either type of heat. Any info or opinions for me?

Jamie Hall

Very different effects. The infrared heaters overhead are great when you step out of a shower or something, but they don't do much to actually make the space warm, and if you're sitting there contemplating life they don't help much. On the other hand, a small kickspace heater will be more than ample to heat the whole space to whatever temperature you want, but won't be as instant. You won't even need the power which a 15 amp -- never mind 20 amp -- circuit would give you; I'm going to guess in that size space (unless you have outside walls and no insulation of any kind in them) that 750 watts would be more than enough.

What makes you assume that the existing 20 amp circuit is not to code?

Mosherd1

@Jamie Hall I think his thought is that the dedicated 20 amp bathroom circuit is not to code to use for space heating along with bathroom items.  I’m an electrician here in Northern Illinois. If our shop was doing it, we would add a dedicated circuit for the heater if at all possible, if it would look unfeasible to get an additional circuit there, I would discuss with the homeowner that it is possible to add it to the bathroom circuit with the caveat of them knowing they wouldn’t be able to run the heat with a blower dryer and curling iron and such. I am not sure what the actual code is on this subject, as we always wire well above and beyond the requirements of the NEC, and there are very few times that an electrical inspection is required. I can tell you in the 15 years I have been doing this, I have had 3 inspections done. A few municipalities around here require them, but only for new construction, or very extensive remodels. 

Mosherd1

@Jells Do you have 3 feet of baseboard area that you could put electric baseboard in? That would give you 750 watts of heat (2560 btus). They are available in 120 volt models, and are mostly silent in operation vs. a kickspace heater. 

pecmsg

for a small area in floor electric works real well 

Zman

I think I would consider either these https://runtalnorthamerica.com/product-category/electric-radiators/
or maybe these https://www.radiantsystemsinc.com/

Both would provide a nice comfortable radiant heat.

Jells

@Zman & @Mosherd1 : Unfortunately there's really no wall space for a traditional heater of any kind, I had to put hooks on the back of the door for towels! It's a stupid small lav, built as an afterthought in the 50s for a 450ft 1br apt in a pre-1900 tenement style building. When we took this 2nd floor unit to add to our ground floor one, we actually broke through into the bedroom for space to move the shower out of there, and it's still tiny. In my tenant's baths there's barely room to move as they have a 32x34 shower and a 18" sink where I have a 54" wide vanity.

@Jamie Hall: I would assume that the 20A required for blow dryers and such could not be legally shared with a high draw heater since it would defeat the purpose of requiring that circuit! I'm sure that 750w would keep the room warm, but as said, not do it quickly, so I need to decide if the heat is just for after shower or not. My wife seems to think the IR might be just fine, she currently has a plug-in space heater she uses after a shower. Of course, I'm made of sterner stuff and do without

hot_rod

Depending on how much of a project you want, electric ceiling radiant is also possible. There are wires and mats approved for under Sheetrock. Heat and comfortable showering conditions

Jells

hot_rod said:

Depending on how much of a project you want, electric ceiling radiant is also possible. There are wires and mats approved for under Sheetrock. Heat and comfortable showering conditions

I recall from looking into it years ago for apartment heating that you need to put up at least R13 above the radiant to direct the heat down. It's not a bad idea, but as you say a much bigger project.

JUGHNE

The Comfort Cove that Z-man mentioned above would be the best bang for the buck.
Wall tstat can go under unit.
120 or 240 vac.
Always up high, safe from any spray of any sort.
BB heaters have a bad life in any bathroom.

jumper

I like those heat lamps for bathrooms. Install two. One red & one white.
I believe each uses a 200 watt bulb.
Run each timer about 20 minutes before you go & it won't be so bad.

PC7060

I installed a Panasonic whisper warm exhaust fan system for bathroom-heat. Requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit.  

The fan and the heater are separately controlled. I have a moisture sensing switch tied to the fan and a timer tied to the heating element. Provides ample heat for a small area such as a bathroom. Cost was around $230 but price has gone up recently. 

Fan is also helpful when contemplating the world problems too. 

Jells

PC7060 said:

I installed a Panasonic whisper warm exhaust fan system for bathroom-heat. Requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit.  

The fan and the heater are separately controlled. I have a moisture sensing switch tied to the fan and a timer tied to the heating element. Provides ample heat for a small area such as a bathroom. Cost was around $230 but price has gone up recently. 

Fan is also helpful when contemplating the world problems too. 

Thanks, that's a really interesting solution I did not know about! I'm going to look into it. I feel like the current exhaust fan is not working very well, but I'm not sure why. I hope the duct does not clogged, the outlet is like 20 ft up and I only have a 16 ft ladder...

PC7060

Jells said:
the outlet is like 20 ft up and I only have a 16 ft ladder...

Bummer, we’ve all been there. Good luck and be safe. 🍀 

Larry Weingarten

Not this way please!

Yours, Larry

Jells

Larry Weingarten said:

Not this way please!

Yours, Larry

Nope, not me. My usual max is a 6 ft stepladder. If it's over that, find someone else. I fully believe the most dangerous thing there is to late middle age men is ladders. I get thigh shivers seeing guys up on 30' extension ladders! I'm even not so crazy about going up the hatch to a flat roof. Funny thing is, my son is a professional rock climber. His pics make me want to puke.

Jells

PC7060 said:

I installed a Panasonic whisper warm exhaust fan system for bathroom-heat

My wife asked an obvious question I should have: How does it heat and exhaust at the same time without blowing out the air it just heated?

PC7060

Haha. Always good to confirm reality versus marketing. 

1. The two units can run independently so you don’t have to have the fan on.  

2. the unit radiates heat similar to hydronic systems so the materials in the room are being heated more so than the air.  

pecmsg

Jells said:

PC7060 said:

I installed a Panasonic whisper warm exhaust fan system for bathroom-heat. Requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit.  

The fan and the heater are separately controlled. I have a moisture sensing switch tied to the fan and a timer tied to the heating element. Provides ample heat for a small area such as a bathroom. Cost was around $230 but price has gone up recently. 

Fan is also helpful when contemplating the world problems too. 

Thanks, that's a really interesting solution I did not know about! I'm going to look into it. I feel like the current exhaust fan is not working very well, but I'm not sure why. I hope the duct does not clogged, the outlet is like 20 ft up and I only have a 16 ft ladder...

You have a 20' High Ceiling?

Jells

pecmsg said:

Jells said:

PC7060 said:

I installed a Panasonic whisper warm exhaust fan system for bathroom-heat. Requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

The fan and the heater are separately controlled. I have a moisture sensing switch tied to the fan and a timer tied to the heating element. Provides ample heat for a small area such as a bathroom. Cost was around $230 but price has gone up recently.

Fan is also helpful when contemplating the world problems too.

Thanks, that's a really interesting solution I did not know about! I'm going to look into it. I feel like the current exhaust fan is not working very well, but I'm not sure why. I hope the duct does not clogged, the outlet is like 20 ft up and I only have a 16 ft ladder...

You have a 20' High Ceiling?

No, the exterior vent is 20' up the outside wall as the bath is 2nd floor.