NYC bans new gas hookups

HydroNiCK

https://news.yahoo.com/in-significant-climate-change-action-new-york-city-bans-new-gas-hookups-173727046.html

STEAM DOCTOR

There are easier and less painful methods of reducing carbon emissions. There are endless steam heated buildings in NYC. Mandate that they all have proper steam main venting. Will greatly reduce boiler run time=carbon emissions. How is the combustion on these boilers? Properly train and pay qualified inspectors. Every building should be inspected regularly. Proper boiler combustion and cleaning should be mandatory (win-win all around). Etc. Etc. Etc. These things should be done in any case and benefit everyone involved. 

DanHolohan

I’ve invited these folks to tour the 1890 General Society of Mechanics and Tradesmen of the City of New York’s landmarked building in Manhattan, where we made some minor changes to the steam system and cut the ConEd steam bill by 43%. 

There was absolutely no interest.

Why? 

Because it doesn’t run on electricity. 

As Steamhead says . . .

delcrossv

@DanHolohan Sounds like they're at the "one size fits all" stage.

DanHolohan

They had made up the minds and that was that. 

Jersey2

Where is all the electricity going to come from? Builders will want to get all their building in before the zero co2 law kicks in.

FStephenMasek

The entire electrical system in the USA, from generation, to transmission, to distribution can not come anywhere close to meeting the fantasies of the fanatics (and crooks) pushing electric everything. They think solar will work. What about charging cars and powering other things when there is no sunlight? Oh, just install large batteries in every building. Paying for it something they have no desire to consider.

ratio

I'm sure that if your house is large enough, you'll be able to buy some kind of permit to allow gas usage.

delcrossv

Oh it can work, just not how they're proposing it. Want to decarbonize by going electric?
Sure. Build another 200 nuclear plants and put in the grid to handle the increased generation.
Done! 😀
Who has the lowest CO2 in Europe? France. Why? They're 70% nuclear generation.

The Steam Whisperer

It sure does sound like they swallowed the New York City Housing Report misinformation hook, line, sinker and fisherperson! They are ignoring a lot of basic information about heating loads.... like 90% of the heating season only needs at most 60% of peak capacity. They could heat pump to thier hearts desire for that first 60% and then rely on fossil fuel back up for the peak and reduce emissions about 90% at a fraction of the cost of the on site equipment and at a huge reduction in grid expansion costs.
I also find it quite interesting that there seems to be no push for eliminating the need for an electrical grid by making smaller buildings self sufficient via CHP. You can tell who is running the show... the owners of the energy grids!

Hot_water_fan

Sure. Build another 200 nuclear plants and put in the grid to handle the increased generation. 

Nuclear industry is dormant - who can build 1 reactor let alone 200 plants? The answer is no one. Solar is here and real. 

ratio

What's solar conversion up to now, 40%?

Hot_water_fan

Solar is $1/watt and the fuel is free. That’s the economic case right there. That’s why 20 GW was installed in both 2020 and 2021. 20 GW is probably more nuclear than has been installed since the 70s.  

Jamie Hall

Two comments before I start getting in trouble. First, solar power may be a dollar a watt. Somewhere. Not, however, around here, and not with the necessary batteries. How do I know? Just priced it for one of the places I care for. Try about 10 times that figure to go off grid, and that includes a raft of government subsidies which may or may not last until tomorrow.

Second, at the present time, world-wide, there are around 50 reactors under construction, with an installed capacity of around 400 gigawatts. Another 100 are on order to start construction in the next year, and at least 300 proposed but not under contract. Nuclear power is hardly dormant. Check your facts, @Hot_water_fan

Not, however, in the US (there are two still under construction, sort of...) -- not for any engineering or scientific reason, but very simply because of fear and astoundingly effective lobbying by some organisations who should know better.

Hot_water_fan

@Jamie Hall I’m talking utility scale solar, the lion share of what is installed. Fixed tilt utility scale is even lower actually. I’m not denying nuclear is under construction elsewhere, it’s the pace that’s the problem. 50GW/ 5-10 years is too slow. If we’re being pragmatic, solar is the low carbon pathway in the US before nuclear. If we’re playing make believe, sure let’s install 200 GW of nuclear next year, why not. That’ll only require 200 x $10B a pop and a host of nonexistent construction companies. I think regulation is blamed for engineering and construction failure, when large projects go sideways. Reactors are big and complex and it’s hubris to think Bechtel or whoever will suddenly figure this out. 

Jamie Hall

https://www.statista.com/statistics/513671/number-of-under-construction-nuclear-reactors-worldwide/

https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/plans-for-new-reactors-worldwide.aspx#:~:text=Plans For New Reactors Worldwide (Updated November 2021),are major plans for new units in Russia.

pecmsg

All this and you can still install a 500k, 1million BTUpool heater, driveway defroster, garage warmer system……….if you have the money!

delcrossv

Solar isn't dispatchable. That kills it right there. Ask how well grid level solar is working out in Germany (as they're mining lignite as fast as they can) 🙄

TAG

What's a gut? ... I have an apartment in midtown -- pre WWII ... it's never been gutted and I don's see the possibility. Lots of those buildings use the steam loop.

Seems this will make gentrifying areas cost more to heat ? They are gut rehabs

Zman

In most areas, resistive electric heat actually burns 2x the fossil fuels of even a standard efficiency gas boiler. This is due to the inherent inefficiencies of our county's power generation and distribution systems.

Electric induction ranges are far more efficient than gas ranges. Heat pumps can be great provided the building is designed for them and the environment is not too cold.

The "electrify everything" crowd drives me nuts because in many cases they are doing more damage to the environment by pushing one size fits all solutions.

hot_rod

additional generation will be easier than distribution. I started getting the Power magazine newsletter, lots of info on all the various plants being built, solar, wind, coal, nuclear, hydrogen, etc.

Luckily there is bipartisan support for the new technology nukes, that will be a key for electrification. Smart grid upgrades are included in the Build Back Better, bill if it ever gets approved.

https://www.powermag.com/doe-begins-fleshing-out-availability-of-advanced-nuclear-reactor-fuel/