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Massachusetts steam systems, 😟

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GW
GW Member Posts: 4,693
Good times  :)


Gary Wilson
Wilson Services, Inc
Northampton, MA
gary@wilsonph.com
delcrossv

Comments

  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,432
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    Knuckleheads... see it up here in NH too. Seems nobody wants to read manuals any longer...
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    K well you just need to boiler the water, it’s easy 
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    NoelAndersondabrakeman
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,627
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    Who gets to work on steam systems?

       Everyone!

    GW
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 742
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    Bet you find a new tee and a union under that duct tape :open_mouth:
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,543
    edited December 2021
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    Piped by a hot water fitter. What's wrong with it??? Supply & return is all you need.

    Nice 45 degree offset though 1.414 :) gotta give him credit for that

    Looks like the crappy QB burner and crappier Tiger Loop

    I strongly think that years ago when they closed most of the Jr high and high school trade shops that somehow the READING classes were also deleted.
    PC7060GWBobCSuperTech
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,260
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    So do counterflow serve owners better because there's less to be messed up?
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Jumper I would think it’s all the same, it’s either piped and skimmed well or it isn’t. Poorly piped means wet steam and it’s downhill from there.

     This system is not counterflow, you can see the return main(s) in the background, lower than the supply.

    Also, with counterflow, I bet two dollars and a couple donuts but the sub-par boiler installer would never touch the main vents at the ends of the mains
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Ed that’s very generous 😀 

    I bet a dollar and a dollar he took a good guess at that offset, and then nippled his way down into the boiler,

    That constant-I have remembered since I was a freshman in high school. The other angles, I need to look at my cheat sheet.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    delcrossv said:
    Bet you find a new tee and a union under that duct tape :open_mouth:
    I think it’s a giant bushing ✔️
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    delcrossv
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,543
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    Having seen the glass piped Weil McLain video a few times I'll bet the inside of that riser is nice and clean :) LOL

    Surprised it heats at all
    GW
  • Chris_L
    Chris_L Member Posts: 336
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    GW said:


    delcrossv said:

    Bet you find a new tee and a union under that duct tape :open_mouth:

    I think it’s a giant bushing ✔️

    Yes, that is the way both the boilers are piped in my 100-year old, two-family home near Boston.

    The tees are original--bushed down from 3.5 inches to whatever was used for the riser of the replacement boiler. And you know what? They work fine that way.
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Chris that’s great- if the tee is big enough and the boiler is piped to spec, good times. Nothing wrong with a bushed tee if the velocities are good 

    too much steam then it’s best to yank the tee and get two risers of the header (a bit more work)

    but that’s not the concern in this pic 
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    delcrossv
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 742
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    GW said:

    ....

    but that’s not the concern in this pic 

    Where's the equalizer?
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    GWmattmia2SuperTech
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,260
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    I mean that boiler replacement for counterflow system requires less expertise.
    GW said:

    Jumper I would think it’s all the same, it’s either piped and skimmed well or it isn’t. Poorly piped means wet steam and it’s downhill from there.

     This system is not counterflow, you can see the return main(s) in the background, lower than the supply.

    Also, with counterflow, I bet two dollars and a couple donuts but the sub-par boiler installer would never touch the main vents at the ends of the mains

  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Still not sure what the difference is, maybe a little less work overall, sure 
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,670
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    You can move the boiler to fit the offset. No math or measurement was involved...
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Matt, Ed and I were having a math moment, we are all good
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    mattmia2
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    mattmia2
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,543
    edited January 2022
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    Some will use any gimmick to avoid piping it right. No equalizer, no header, used one tapping, riser too small.

    But they spent money for a surge tank which could have been spent on the right fittings.

    Anything to avoid reading the instructions


    Piped by a hot water guy "lets stick this in there it will fix it"
    ethicalpaulmattmia2delcrossvGW
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,704
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    I hear it works just as well if you leave it in the box in the corner
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
    GWpecmsg
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,670
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    Oh, it should somewhat do what piping it correctly would do. Still some unnecessary water and steam colliding, but at least it will slow everything down and let the water fall back in to the boiler, jut not exactly at the best location.
    GW
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,752
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    that be dern good piping.
    delcrossvGW
  • ScottSecor
    ScottSecor Member Posts: 856
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    At least I'm not alone with finding the steam boilers with "creative" piping.
    GW
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    There definitely is some water putsing around the system. The system speaks to me 
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    We are doing some minis on this property, when I quoted the job there were two clunky oil steam boilers- now, this boiler showed up out of the blue. I think there’s a local HVAC company pretending to be a hydronics installer  



    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    SuperTech
  • Dan_NJ
    Dan_NJ Member Posts: 247
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    What, ran out of zip ties for the duct work?  You can daisy chain them you know ...
    GW
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
    edited January 2022
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    You just attract the better jobs....huh?

    And out there installing heat pumps too.
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    J can you rephrase. Don’t understand 
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    Here you are the forced air guy, insinuating poor boiler piping........just pulling your chain!!
    ;)
    GW
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Ahh I was starting to feel my feelings 😆 
    I’m a 1980s plumber turned boiler guy turned hvac guy. Just flowing the green paved road to retirement 
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    CLambSuperTech
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,528
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    I love that. 😉
    Retired and loving it.
    GW
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,627
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    I like the venturi to help accelerate the steam so it can carry the water up into the system.

    <sigh>

    mattmia2GW
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    delcrossv
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,670
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    GW said:

    We are doing some minis on this property, when I quoted the job there were two clunky oil steam boilers- now, this boiler showed up out of the blue. I think there’s a local HVAC company pretending to be a hydronics installer  



    its the new vertical header.

    did you tell them they might want to not pay whoever did that?
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Matt I’m too shy and non confrontational, mum is the word ✅
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 742
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    GW said:


    Looks like you unscrewed about half a century of bad piping on that one. 👍
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    GW
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    that we did. and got some yellow #5 goop in my hair that day too
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    delcrossv
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    Great improvement!

    Do I see new cast iron fittings there?

    What happened to the "running trap" that was vented on each side?
    And why was it there?
    GW
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Yes new cast iron, I’m old school 😀

    running trap was a head scratcher for sure 😫
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    We are getting all the mini splits done.We are getting all the mini splits done.Not sure how I missed this detail, feast your eyes
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com