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BTU reduction 235k to 140k

GW
GW Member Posts: 4,135
How many y’all keep an ongoing list of jobs you do and reduce BTUs? Just a hobby of mine. This one we are taking a 135 and a 100 furnace out and installing an 80 and a 60. 95k drop. Share some BTU stories😀

we dropped the ac too but those numbers aren’t as cool 

ps there’s a bit of an addition in the rear. I spent a chunk of the day running 45 feet of 3” Centrotherm and pvc in a nice modern crawl space 




Gary Wilson
Wilson Services, Inc
Northampton, MA
[email protected]

Comments

  • delta T
    delta T Member Posts: 847
    When I have that mythical thing called free time, I'm gonna rip out my current FAGF and install some hydronic heat. Existing is for some insane reason 240k, load calc says 65k......can't wait for those new heating bills!!!
    GW
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 9,176
    The house we grew up in my mom later sold to my cousin. When I was in school one of our projects was to do a heat loss on our own house, It's 54,000 btu

    When the house was 35 years old my cousin wanted to change the furnace and add AC which it never had.

    The house had an addition on it making the total heat loss 65k.

    The original furnace was 100k in 80k out.

    he got 3 quotes before he called me. #1 was 120k input and 3 1/2 tons, #2 was 100k input and 3 tons. The third one, the right one was 72K input (These were all high efficiency furnaces) and 2 1/2 tons.

    The old house my brother bought had an old Texaco oil fired furnace WITH A 1.00 GPH nozzle in it. That's 140k input

    Replaced it with a new gas furnace 80% eff. New furnace is 55K output and 2 tons of cooling

    GW
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 16,063
    The original boiler in Cedric's home was a monster HB Smith with a 5 gph Quiet May burner. The current one is a much Weil-McClain with only about half the fuel flow... how much of that difference was boiler efficiency and how much storm windows I don't know.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    GW
  • Hot_water_fan
    Hot_water_fan Member Posts: 63
    90,000 input/ 72,000 output replaced with 23,000 btu output (still comfortably oversized). Comfort much improved 
    GW
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 2,793
    I replaced an old gravity furnace (uhhh, 100K?) with a 40K two stage 80%er that keeps the place toasty.
    GW
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,564
    edited July 22
    Here's one we did a long time ago- current owner had us switch it from oil to gas. Pics are no longer there but the info is:

    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1017181#Comment_1017181

    Edit- another one from the archives:

    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/96753/thee-olde-spencer-has-retired-gordo-steamhead#latest
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    GW
  • The Steam Whisperer
    The Steam Whisperer Member Posts: 672
    Just about every job we do is one of those.

    My church, 2,100,000 input WM LGB steam, replaced with two baby 80's ( 345,000 in each) and a 150,000 input hot water boiler. With the new heating plant, upgraded 2 pipe system and electrical ( mainly lighting) upgrades, building source energy usage is in the 4th percentile ....96% of all worship facilities use more energy than the building.

    Current project I just sent out proposal: Current, 2-WM LGB steam totaling 2,210,000 input, radiation load 639,000 btu/hr. New boilers 1- 480 and 1-580, both with a little extra beyond the 33% factor.

    Upcoming project: 630,000 input Peerless 211A steamer, radiation load 198,000 btu/hr. New boiler: Baby 80 ( WM380) at 345,000 input.

    Previous project for this same owner: 3,000,000 input Peerless atmospheric to a 1, 400,000 Peerless power burner

    One a couple years ago 2,800,000 input on/off steamer. Upgraded the 2 pipe system with orifices, eliminated vacuum pump and installed mod burner on boiler firing from about 400,000 input to at most 1,100,000. cut fuel usage about 50%.



    While we don't do cooling, I do know how to do calcs. A church a couple years ago, the engineers calculated about 50 tons, I ran the numbers about 12 tons.

    My previous church: the experts from the design department at the distributers figured 10 to 12 tons, I calculated 6, which is what was installed about 12 years ago. It still tends to be cold and clammy until the room fills up during the services.

    What we have seen with steamers is a pretty consistent pattern that they are nearly all oversized by around 60%.

    The worst we've seen so far have been:
    A nursing home.....3,200,000 input, with a load around 250,000 btu/hr
    A public high school built in the 1970's in a small town.....installed capacity about 10 times the load. Lots of evidence of massive "good old boy" network corruption.
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
    ratioGW
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,425
    Hoping for a good result with this project.
    Removed 1.5M firing single boiler and installing 3 boilers totaling 590,000 BTUH.

    Going for orifice installation in supply valves to see maybe 60-70% of remaining connected EDR.
    Building envelope improvements over the years and adjacent newer construction have dropped the heat loss covered by the steam system.

    My first and probably only steam boiler installation.....it is close to semi retirement.
    GW
  • Mike_Breault
    Mike_Breault Member Posts: 19
    personal last 2 homes... prior to here I worked for Olsen furnaces, ripped out a 125,000 clare furnace (draft hood, standing pilot) installed a 2 stage 60k. I had a DAC on it, in 2 years it never went to hi fire (36,000) even when below design conditions, this was based on a heat loss of course (52,000) so 89,000 btu drop there

    current home, Furnace died, plan was to convert to Hydronic heat, but HE failed Nov... already had the ModCon boiler, so I dropped it in, added a fan coil as it was cold.... needed heat. Furnace was a Hi Eff Armstrong, 120k. Fan coil is rated 80k @180F water, have been running reset curve on boiler from 105-135 all winter, adding in the radiant as we reno... so again, nowhere near the heat loss calculated.
    GW
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,135
    Nice job all. Some of y’all have some huge stuff. We just do residential. 
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,368
    edited July 22
    Quite often 1.5 mil or so down to twin 399s. Plus we add indirects for domestic hw where they had separate 199000, 100 gals x 2 tanks prior. Quite a waste prior.
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,135
    Wow you commercial guys- let me guess—a mechanical engineer designed these systems originally 
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
    ratio
  • SweatyInToronto
    SweatyInToronto Member Posts: 71
    GW said:
    Wow you commercial guys- let me guess—a mechanical engineer designed these systems originally 
    Wonder how long the record heat in the west especially will take to affect the design day temperature, and subsequent calculations! 
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 2,793
    GW said:

    Wow you commercial guys- let me guess—a mechanical engineer designed these systems originally 

    You betcha, & if you question it they'll whip out a calculator and prove it's right.

    <sigh>

  • The Steam Whisperer
    The Steam Whisperer Member Posts: 672
    Well in in some the recent cooling loads I whipped out the calculator and proved them wrong... it appears they ignored the cooling load factors for building usage patterns and building mass. Just very sloppy design work.
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
    ratio
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,204
    Don't do a lot of swaps, but earlier this week I started a project in a new surgical center running 2.5M worth of condensing boilers and all VAV coils with just a little baseboard and one air curtain. Out of curiosity, yesterday I collected all the envelope data and ran a load calc. It came in just under 400k. Yes, it was all "engineered" and the piping diagrams provided by the "engineer" are also ridiculous.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 9,176
    I have not run into an engineer yet that can size a pump. They throw a dart at the wall and it hit's a number and that's what they go with. Sad. Very sad. All it takes is a little time, it's not rocket science.
    GroundUp
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,564
    Been looking for this one- we cut the total BTU input for heat & hot water in this house by half:

    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1251001#Comment_1251001
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 16,063

    I have not run into an engineer yet that can size a pump. They throw a dart at the wall and it hit's a number and that's what they go with. Sad. Very sad. All it takes is a little time, it's not rocket science.

    C'mpn, @EBEBRATT-Ed -- we're not all that bad. Just most of us...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ratio
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