I need some help choosing reliable boiler replacement

Harold

This is an ongoing saga of why I just can not keep boilers working. And what I should select as a new boiler. Results so far for a boiler around 2005.

1 - Boiler installed - house works.
2 - First boiler eats itself. New boiler core replaced under warranty.
3 - Second boiler core fails. Core has to be replaced because it leaks.
4 - Surprise - now core leaks again. A replacement is installed.
5 - Fed up with the process - new boiler. Significant money added to accumulated costs for things that should just work.
8 - New boiler. Different boiler vendor. Works nicely.
9 - Two days ago - yet another lack of operational boiler. Core leaks. This is a SS core. It should, in my mind, last rather longer.

This is getting very old.

The whole thing is just crazy. This should not be a relatively short term function followed by failure.

I need a boiler with:
10:1 control
Reliable lifetime
Control of attached devices - DHW and system flow
Understandable documentation - not a problem for installers, but it could be better documented for civilian understanding.


Can some of the experienced people here provide some recommendations for a new boiler replacement. There are so many alternatives. And many poor choices available for reliability and durability. I just can't digest all the possible alternatives for a functional boiler.

We are having the lowest temperatures for the year (around the 20's). It is getting really chilly. I can deal with it, but my wife is not well. Heat matters.

Please provide real evaluations for the brand names. I have to pick the new boiler really soon. I just can't do it by myself.

kcopp

Wow.
Tell us more about your system.... What fuel type? City or well water? Is there any Non O2 barrier tubing in your system?

Robert_25

Something else is wrong.  Poor water quality, leaks and lots of makeup water, etc.

pecmsg

Where is this located
High or low temperature emitters
What's the heat loss calculations and boiler output
How much make up water is introduced, monthly

Jamie Hall

@kcopp and @Robert_25 nailed it. Something else is causing your boiler failures -- most likely either poor water quality, leaks causing excess water use, oxygen getting into the system -- and no treatment. You'l need to do a much more thorough investigation as to the cause if you don't want to keep treating the symptom (the boiler failures are a symptom of another problem)

Ironman

You need to get a COMPETENT HYDRONIC pro out there, not just someone who replaces things.

As others have stated: your problem lies beyond the boiler.

Try the contractor locator above.

Harold

Boiler is Propane. Well water with sentinel. PEX under floors, Copper piping in boiler room.

Water addition very low.

System was working fine. I heard some gurgling and added water. Pressure gauge at zero next day. Major gurgling and loss of water. Water dripping from drain of boiler.

The person doing the work is competent. I have used him from day one of putting in the heating system. I trust his work. He is looking for a replacement. Finding a boiler is being difficult - everything back ordered.

When replaced I will flush everything and refill with protection. I will flush with cleaner and protectant. I may not have gotten everything flushed. The configuration is a bit complicated for flushing.

However, what I need right now is selecting a new boiler.

The contractor found a Bosch and a Triangle. I have selected the Bosch. Both of us will together drain, refill, treat. We will make sure here is not a missed area of water.

Thanks for you participation.

DZoro

All the guys above hit on many key items. Each one of those items mentioned are very important part of longevity of a boiler system.
There are different types of pex tubing, which do you have?
Your water must be tested, in order for a guaranteed longevity of your system. Remember this is a system and not just a boiler. Each part and contents of the system must work together, or failures will result.
If your not checking all the items then your guessing. Guessing is very expensive in the boiler world.
Either boiler will serve you fine if they get along with the rest of the system. Water, pex, copper, oxygen control, non ferrous, items, pumps (sizes), air eliminators, Iron elimination, pressure leak checked system, on and on. All need to be checked for conformity within your system.
Once again both are good boilers when installed properly with good components within the system.
D

Jamie Hall

Pity to replace the boiler when you don't even know if it's the problem...

pecmsg

6 boilers in 16 years................Its not the Boiler!

In refrigeration we have a saying "Compressors don't die, there Murdered" That's also true for Boilers!

EBEBRATT-Ed

If you don't know why the other boilers failed then the replacement is doomed to fail.

Bosch with an aluminum HX may not be the best choice

kcopp

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

If you don't know why the other boilers failed then the replacement is doomed to fail.

Bosch with an aluminum HX may not be the best choice

I totally concur...

Harold

I came here for help in selecting a replacement boiler. I had two days to choose. I got no useful information here to select a boiler. Now I get 2 comments after getting no actual assistance. We found (the contractor and I) a very limited boiler availability. The boiler I got is the Bosch HX.

Thanks.

pecmsg

I’m sorry but I see several comments and there all basically the same. “Find out why there failing”

What did the installing contractor do to find the cause of the failure?

Jamie Hall

Harold said:

I came here for help in selecting a replacement boiler. I had two days to choose. I got no useful information here to select a boiler. Now I get 2 comments after getting no actual assistance. We found (the contractor and I) a very limited boiler availability. The boiler I got is the Bosch HX.

Thanks.

Two days? Two moths might have been a more seemly time frame, unless it was a straight out emergency. Further, you did get carefully thought out and considered information. Which, however, you have chosen to ignore.

bucksnort

Harold said:

Boiler is Propane.

.

The person doing the work is competent. I have used him from day one of putting in the heating system. I trust his work. He is looking for a replacement. Finding a boiler is being difficult - everything back ordered.

Sorry, but i disagree. What you have is a parts changer that is more than happy to replace failed equipment well before it needs to be. I would order a spare right now so in 2 years you won't have to worry about any back orders of equipment.

Harold

I chose to ask one simple question - best boiler. Nothing else. Just that. Dealing with other things - not requested. Responses useless in choosing a boiler. Great information about stuff not working - but not the question.

My problem only had a limited timeline. Boilers have been scarce. House was without heat. My wife is quite sick and the house must be heated in any case. Snowed in today (looks like over 12" on a couple of steep uncleared roads). Fortunately we got the new boiler in yesterday. A side note - the contractor reference. Worked with me while designing the house and installed pretty much every appropriate system from our house. I can only say he is highly skilled and an excellent responsive contractor. I felt there was some sort of demeaning of the contractor on this thread. Any failures are my responsibility.

I would suggest when answering someone's question here it should absolutely include answering the REQUESTED QUESTION. Then you could include and share experiences that may be useful.

Jamie - I respect the information people were presenting. But they completely failed to provide the requested information. I have not chosen to ignore the people posting here. I have respected the people on this site for many years. But I just (and only) needed the information on selecting the best boiler.

I rather find the behaviour of ignoring the answer to the requested information and going somewhere else a disservice to users (like me).

Jamie Hall

I appreciate -- and understand -- your annoyance, @Harold . Had I known -- which was unclear -- that you were facing a genuine emergency no heat situation, I would have answered very differently. The question "what can I do today to get some heat into this place yesterday" is very very different from "what is a reliable boiler replacement", as I'm sure you would agree.

I think that the folks who provided the answers to which you object so vigorously were, in fact, doing a good job of answering the question which you posed. It just wasn't the question which you wanted answers to.

pecmsg

The installing contractor is the most important name to consider. 

Think of a car delivered to your driveway in pieces. Would you still choose a Ford, Chevy Chrysler or the mechanic that has to assemble it!

DZoro

Sorry, just trying to help, personally I'd install the Triangle Tube. Good Co. 15 years ago, then there parts were priced out of this world, Now they seem to be going back in the right direction. Main reason of my complaint with them was part pricing, but they seem to have corrected that issue. Overall it's a very solid boiler.
D

MaxMercy

Harold said:

I chose to ask one simple question - best boiler. Nothing else. Just that. Dealing with other things - not requested.

I didn't answer Harold because I, like you, am not a pro. I leave those things to the pros.

But, you didn't just ask one simple question. You led off with:

Harold said:

This is an ongoing saga of why I just can not keep boilers working. And what I should select as a new boiler.

You have to realize that most of the guys here are real professionals, and when they see a pattern of boilers failing without the cause being found, you're grabbing them by the shoulders and shaking them.

You also added:

Harold said:

1 - Boiler installed - house works.
2 - First boiler eats itself. New boiler core replaced under warranty.
3 - Second boiler core fails. Core has to be replaced because it leaks.
4 - Surprise - now core leaks again. A replacement is installed.
5 - Fed up with the process - new boiler. Significant money added to accumulated costs for things that should just work.
8 - New boiler. Different boiler vendor. Works nicely.
9 - Two days ago - yet another lack of operational boiler. Core leaks. This is a SS core. It should, in my mind, last rather longer.

This is getting very old.

The whole thing is just crazy. This should not be a relatively short term function followed by failure.

Again, adding all that gets the attention of professionals who deal with this sort of failure all the time.

I think you should cut them some slack and also to spend some time trying to figure out what happened to your previous boilers and make sure this pattern of failure isn't some unlucky lottery odds middle finger from the boiler gods that will smite your new Bosch. Now that it's installed and the house is warm, I would take the time and reread some of the comments regarding the potential reasons your boilers have been failing.

And I know everyone here hopes your wife feels better soon.

Harold

I should not have started with my little story. My fault for that. Confused people. I should have made a simple - what boiler.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Harold

You have to understand there is no "best boiler" none of them are perfect but should be chosen as best for the intended use.

Also, you mentioned the # of boilers that have been installed ....and failed. This set up a red flag for any professional installer and it should for yours as well.

Anyone installing a boiler after the previous boilers have had a large # of failures who isn't concerned as to why they failed is setting the customer up for .....................failure and isn't doing his job.


So, now maybe you understand where all the questions are coming from. We are trying to get the whole story so as to make the correct recommendation

SuperTech

I know that you already have a new boiler installed and due to the urgency of the situation the time wasn't taken to determine the cause of the very premature failures of the previous boilers.  

If reliability is the most important factor in determining your choice of boiler then I would recommend a cast iron boiler over a mod con.  Cast iron boilers are much less susceptible to some of the issues that plague mod cons and typically last 30 years or more when installed and maintained properly. Peerless and Weil Mclain make good cast iron boilers.  Energy Kinetics makes fantastic high efficiency non condensing and modulating condensing boilers. 

I really think that the combined knowledge of the members of this site could help prevent you from experiencing these repeated boiler failures. What was the make and model of the the previous boilers? It would also be helpful if you could post a few pictures of your boiler and piping, perhaps something with the installation is leading to the failures that your contractor has missed.