Found a "Moline Heat" system near Baltimore

Steamhead

Didn't know Moline made it this far East, but there it is. This is a huge house in Ruxton, north of Baltimore and west of Towson, which has always been a high-end area. We found some old gravity hot-air ducts coming up from the basement, so the Moline was an upgrade. There's an American Rococo hot-closet radiator in the pantry to keep food warm.

Beavis and Butt-head have been hard at work here. There are several pitch problems that are causing banging, some radiators have had traps added and some have had air vents added. You know, the usual knuckleheading.

And here is the Moline air vent, still in service:



We didn't know it was a Moline until we got here, so we didn't have any documentation (see @DanHolohan 's "The Lost Art of Steam Heating Companion") to show how this device should be connected. So we didn't know that the bottom should be dripped into the wet return, instead of having a drain valve on it, and we didn't know the copper pipe going off to the left which connects to the steam header was wrong. Steam was passing thru the Moline vent and shutting the vent on the outlet (Hoffman #75 shown, we upgraded to Gorton #2). So we spliced a valve into that line and shut it off for now.

The ejector is still in place and apparently working, because the cute little Hoffman #4A someone installed on the dry return was sucking air in! We capped that vent off.

We have a lot more work to do on this, and we'll bring a real camera next time.

AMservices

I found a Moline north of Boston at the end of last heating season.  Almost untouched. Still had the ejector, air eliminator, orifice valves, no steam traps. 
I want this steam system. 

DanHolohan

Well done! Thanks.

SteamCoffee

PICS! PICS! And more pics! This system is awesome! There was a great write up in how the system works a few years back. Keep us posted!

jumper

Wasn't Moline an engineering steam heat design outfit? I believe that properly designed and installed heating works well and doesn't consume water?

The Steam Whisperer

The Moline is my fav... and inspired me to retrofit most other 2 pipe systems we work on to use the same principles to eliminate the radiator traps and provide very even heating of all the radiators as the boiler modulates on outdoor reset. I believe Moline systems are even found overseas.

The Steam Whisperer

You definitely need to keep the pressure at a max of 8 ounces and don't insulate the condenser pipe. Going higher than about 10 ounces and you will overflow the orifice in the ejector and steam will reach the end of the condenser pipe and get into the ( should be only) Vent for the system. Funny thing, I think I only have found one or two Molines in Chicago, but saw several out in rural NW ILL. Probably fully 3/4 of the 2 pipe systems here in Chicago are (were) Naturally induced vacuum systems... mainly Illinois and Dunham. Most of the rest are vacuum pump systems. Very, very few standard 2 pipe systems.

Steamhead

In rural NW Illinois, Moline would have been the locally-produced system, like Mouat was in the Cleveland area, O-E and Sterling were in the Milwaukee area or Dunham, Illinois Engineering or Kellogg-Mackay-Cameron (K.M.C.) were in Chicagoland.

I remembered the condenser pipe- the one here is intact. There's no insulation on any of the pipes, I told them not to insulate that one.

AMservices

Here's some pictures of the one I found.
Sorry @Steamhead couldn't wait anymore.

SteamCoffee

Maybe a long shot question but, did the Moline Co. have any connection to the Illinois Co? Both great systems..

Gordo

Does anyone here have experience in taking apart/restoring a Moline inlet valve?

Any pictures of the insides?

Steamhead

@Gordo was at this job yesterday and made a YouTube video. I can already hear the groaning from Dolly Parton fans when they see the title:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhFt2jFeHGI

EBEBRATT-Ed

lol

DanHolohan

Thanks, Gordo!

SlowYourRoll

hey ya go, @Steamhead

SlowYourRoll

lemme know if you want me to dig up another part of the system. looks like Wilfred Shurtleff had about 40 patents to his name, although only some had to do with steam heat

Gordo

@SlowYourRoll : Thanks! Do you perhaps have any patents on the Moline shut-off valves themselves?
Looking for any info on those valves.
We had an example of one and sent it to Tunstall for evaluation to see if they could come up with a re-build kit.
In it's current configuration, the the valve is difficult to rebuild.
We are also working on getting a 3d printed version of the distinctive Moline handle.

SlowYourRoll

Gordo said:

@SlowYourRoll : Thanks! Do you perhaps have any patents on the Moline shut-off valves themselves?
Looking for any info on those valves.
We had an example of one and sent it to Tunstall for evaluation to see if they could come up with a re-build kit.
In it's current configuration, the the valve is difficult to rebuild.
We are also working on getting a 3d printed version of the distinctive Moline handle.

i'd do a little digging and see what i can find. if you have any patent info on the valve itself, that helps immensely. the photo you posted above included the date of the patent.

SlowYourRoll

can you give me some more info on the shutoff valve or some pictures or something? i'm seeing some complicated Moline valves, but none seem like the one in your video. what about it is proving difficult?

Gordo

@SlowYourRoll What you see is what I got. I've got nothing else. The physical valve that I had is now in Tunstall's hands for now. Any information that you might have would be helpful.

SlowYourRoll

sorry, there's not much i can do. there's a good number of handle-style valves from that time, but they all pretty much look the same without seeing how your internal mechanism works. only thing i can think is that it seems like Moline Heat might have merged or been bought out by Herman Nelson Corporation about 100 years ago, and Herman Nelson is still in business. that's a total shot in the dark, but sometimes those old companies have a little museum or even just keep a handful of old products to show their history. that's a real longshot though.

Gordo

@My570 : Thanks for posting your Moline valve version.
I would guess that the restrictor was removed to get more heat to the radiator it was attached to.
It for sure looks like the washer holding mechanism was significantly improved over the version we have.
It also appears that the "on-off" bezel on your version no longer has the fine threads. Also more to the good.
Was there a spring inside the handle assembly?
Are there any patent dates on your version?

Gordo

Here is a take-down video of an early version (?) of a Moline System radiator valve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af7IZN3Fty0

Ironman

@Gordo
Did you ever hear anything back from Tunstall about rebuilding the valve?

Gordo

@Ironman
Yes, I sent the valve to Tunstall, and they sent back a solution.
It would require an orifice plate @ the valve union, as the original internal restriction was not compatible with the new internal parts.
Sad to say, the customer never called us back to do any more work for them.

Ironman

Gordo said:

@Ironman Yes, I sent the valve to Tunstall, and they sent back a solution. It would require an orifice plate @ the valve union, as the original internal restriction was not compatible with the new internal parts. Sad to say, the customer never called us back to do any more work for them.

Do you have any details as to the size of the hole in the plate in relation to the size of the rad or is it something that you just have to experiment with until you get it right?

Gordo

There exist steam/vapor orifice sizing charts that can get you close to the "correct" hole size.
They largely depend on the size the radiator (rule of thumb is multiply the radiator size by 0.8 so the steam is all turned to water before it exits the bottom), and the pressure differential across the orifice plate.

JUGHNE

Will this help?
It is a little marked up but plenty of details.

Ironman

JUGHNE said:

Will this help? It is a little marked up but plenty of details.

Yes.

Thank you.