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slapp
slapp Member Posts: 24
I am installing a double header onto a system that only had a single header. The riser from the boiler is 2 in, should I pipe both of them into a 3 inch before it head up to the main? Or keep it 2 inches all the way up?

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  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,704
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    What is the boiler? What does the installation manual say?
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,324
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    Not quite sure I follow you -- but a first, as @ethicalpaul says follow the manual as a minimum. In any case, do not either bush down or reduce coming up out of the boiler tappings -- whatever size they are, keep that all the way up to the header. Then the header itself -- the horizontal (nearly!) pipe -- should be one size larger (more doesn't hurt, but not same size or smaller) all the way to the equalizer. Turn down to the equalizer either with a reducing elbow or reduce on the way down, as you like.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,704
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    Well Jamie, my teeny tiny boiler has 3" tappings because it also comes in much larger versions with the same castings so I wouldn't say to never bush down the tappings.
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,973
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    Double header=drop header?? Maybe post some diagrams. Different people use different terms to refer to different/same things. We don't want anything to be lost in translation. 
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,324
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    Well Jamie, my teeny tiny boiler has 3" tappings because it also comes in much larger versions with the same castings so I wouldn't say to never bush down the tappings.

    Indeed, and I shouldn't talk! Cedric -- a five section Weil-McClain -- has two tappings as well -- and when we put it together, we only used one -- and it works superbly well. Of course, a big drop header... and perhaps more of course, the drop header, in turn, feeds into the left over steam drum of a really big H.B.Smith through four more risers, and only then gets out to the rest of the system. A water droplet doesn't have a chance...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ethicalpaul
  • roelandp
    roelandp Member Posts: 6
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    slapp said:

    I am installing a double header onto a system that only had a single header. The riser from the boiler is 2 in, should I pipe both of them into a 3 inch before it head up to the main? Or keep it 2 inches all the way up?

    do you have the made and model of the boiler each manufacture is different
  • slapp
    slapp Member Posts: 24
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    Hi, thanks, and sorry for not providing some good information in my first go. I have a Burnham Independence IN5 and I am replacing it with an IN6. The IN5 had a massive hole start to rust out. You can see in the pictures that the IN5 is piped with only 1 2 inch header. I was told that I should be using both (double header). So when I replace it with the IN6 I am going to do both. You can see that there is some old plumbing from the previous boiler. The blue Line in the pictures. That stuff will NOT budge, I tried heat, 36 inch wrench, smooth hand...nothing, and I don't want to crack it or I will be in for a larger job than I need right now. I never would reduce the size of the headers...never, I get that. But if I have Two 2 inch headers coming up from the boiler, should I get them into a 3 inch, or build everything 2 inch all the way to the 3 inch and bushing it there? I will also take the time to insulate etc.


  • slapp
    slapp Member Posts: 24
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    I don't have the IN6 yet, comes tomorrow, but I could definitely look at the manual online.
    ethicalpaul
  • slapp
    slapp Member Posts: 24
    edited November 2020
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    Right, so I guess this here says that I should keep it 2 inch. The IN7 or 8 would push up to 3 inches.


    ethicalpaul
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,543
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    2 2" supply risers are optional but I would use 2 risers,
    ethicalpaul
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,861
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    Why are you going larger?
    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,704
    edited November 2020
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    pecmsg said:
    Why are you going larger?
    Exactly this question.

    Also that piping is a nightmare, I hope you’re redoing it per the manual.

    Also if my boiler rusted like that one I’d be trying a different brand
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
    SuperTechSTEAM DOCTOR
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,177
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    As others have asked do you need an IN6? It’s 175,000 Btu input and 450 sqft steam, it’s a big boiler. Have you done an EDR on the house radiators. This will determine the size boiler needed?
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
    ethicalpaulSTEAM DOCTOR
  • slapp
    slapp Member Posts: 24
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    Yeah the house radiators call for 458 sqft of steam, I routinely have 1 to 2 rooms turned off because they are not in use. Currently I get a lot of half warm radiators and on cold days it runs 24 hours. From the looks of the piping the previous owner added on two rooms to the house and didn't add anything to the boiler. Thanks for the help and opinions here. I think I have a way forward.
    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,704
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    Sounds good. Don't worry about half warm radiators, focus only on the sqft of radiation vs boiler.

    Looking back at your posts, I think you are calling steam supply risers "headers". In your diagram above, the header is the horizontal pipe that the steam supplies tie into.

    So you are going from a header with a single steam supply to a new boiler with both steam supplies utilized.
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,706
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    With the current boiler, did the entire house stay comfortable?

    Half warm radiators is moot and running for 24 hours could be good, IF it keeps up and keeps the entire house comfortable.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • motoguy128
    motoguy128 Member Posts: 393
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    It actually run 24 hours or the radiators feel hot 24 hours? I ask because a 175k boiler that runs 24 hours on a design day would be a $800 gas bill in the cooler months. Most properly sized steam boiler run about 50% of the time on a design day on most older higher mass homes.
    ethicalpaul