DIY Steam Boiler Install

ethicalpaul

Seems like it??

JUGHNE

Paul, great looking job!
You must have built this in your mind several times and then adjusted the design while asleep and dreaming......that works for me anyway.

ethicalpaul

Thanks @JUGHNE!

I did exactly that. I had rolled it around in my head so many times. The only thing I didn't know exactly was what the orientation of the boiler was going to be compared to the near boiler piping. But once I got the boiler generally into position, it was kind of obvious how it should go.

JUGHNE

So how close is the draft flue and piping to the wood staircase?
For me when something like that was marginal for clearances, I put sheet metal with 1/2-3/4 " stand off spacers. (cut from steel EMT pipe). The air space would keep the wood cool.

Don't know if this is to code or not. We have no inspections here, just have to apply common sense.

mattmia2

JUGHNE said:

So how close is the draft flue and piping to the wood staircase?
For me when something like that was marginal for clearances, I put sheet metal with 1/2-3/4 " stand off spacers. (cut from steel EMT pipe). The air space would keep the wood cool.

Don't know if this is to code or not. We have no inspections here, just have to apply common sense.

There is a table and diagrams about how to increase clearance with various forms of fire resistant barrier in the code. You coudl put the shield on the wood or on the vent if I recall.

ethicalpaul

It's 7 inches. The Peerless manual specifies at least 6" so I think I'm OK there but if the inspector doesn't like it I'll let you all know!

JUGHNE

I really like your "transparent pipes", great observation ports.
However, I can visualize an inspector staring at them and scratching his head??

EBEBRATT-Ed

@ethicalpaul
Every once in a while everyone get's a leaker. I have them occasionally and everyone else does too even if they won't admit it.

The fittings are crap Chinese made a lot of them and even if they are American made the tolerances are not what they used to be.

Tape and dope together is my trick and you will still get a leaker sometimes.

Here's the trick and everyone will start a fight over this but it works and I don't care.

Dope the inside threads of a stubborn fitting. I use Rectorseal "True Blue" If you read the can it says to dope the inside threads on anything 1 1/4" and larger.

I only do it on 2" and up and it works.

When you unscrew a fitting look where most of the dope is. It's not inside on the threads where it belongs its's pushed outside. That's why doping the inside works.

When I dope the inside I use very little dope on the inside and the outside with tape

ethicalpaul

@JUGHNE Yeah I'm looking forward to seeing what he says about that!

@EBEBRATT-Ed Thanks! That dope-only joint isn't leaking now. I'm not sure if it ever was, or if I was fooled by the dope sagging when it got hot.

I let the pressure go a bit higher to about 1.1 psi and I have to re-do one of my risers that I had too loose for length reasons. Shouldn't be bad.

Thanks for the tape + dope tip, that makes sense to me because if you put dope over tape on the outside threads, how is the dope actually going to get to the inside threads of the other fitting? It will just get pushed off the tape by the first thread as they engage.

Canucker

@JUGHNE McMaster-Carr carries that type of pipe and fittings. You can do a Google search for "sanitary process piping" and it should give you a pretty good rabbit hole to disappear into for awhile. We use it in the pharmaceutical industry for all sorts of pressures and chemicals, so any inspector can look at a manufacturer spec sheet to see that it's well suited for what @ethicalpaul is using it for. I would love to try it on some of my hot water boiler piping, just for curiosity sake

ethicalpaul

I just get mine from Amazon and sometimes ebay. You can google for tri-clamp to see all the various stuff available.

What I like about them is you can offset some of the cost of them because you don't need any unions--the tri-clamp devices are inherently union connections.

They aren't that expensive even...the big sight glasses on my risers are only like $80 including the two NPT fittings and clamps

ethicalpaul

I received my third and final 2.5” sight glass (2” I.D. to match my pipes) for the riser off the header.

this will let me see if any wet steam is going up the main (unlikely I think but I wanted to verify)

It will also let me see if any condensate is counter-flowing from the first part of the main (it currently is because I have to do a little slope adjustment on the start of the main)

I also found and fixed a fitting in the equalizer that I forgot to tighten and was just hand tight—rookie mistake!

ethicalpaul

A question I thought of while doing this install. 

I count about 11 nipples just in my hartford loop and equalizer. In my limited experience a common and early failure point in a steam boiler is the rotting out of these underwater nipples. So why do they make nipples so thin? Here is a domestic Anvil nipple next to a domestic black pipe

ChrisJ

They make it whatever thickness you buy.

If you buy sch 40 pipe that's what you get. Sch 80 is much heavier.

I used copper.

To me, you're seeing a difference in reaming styles.  Was the one on the right reamed at all?

ethicalpaul

They only offer “import” and “domestic” nipples at Supplyhouse.com I’m not sure what you mean

The top one is domestic black pipe, just cut, not reamed. But the wall is THICK! Way way thicker than the walls of the nipples they sell.

You used copper in your equalizer and Hartford loop?

ChrisJ

As far as I know those are all sch 40 and I would assume you're just looking at the reaming.  A sch 40 nipple should be the same thickness.

Go to McMaster and you can buy sch 40 and thicker.

Everything below the water line and the entire equalizer on mine is copper.  I used a 2" type K copper equalizer.

Precaud

Apparently its not all the same thickness. When I fixed my header drip this spring, the 1-1/4" Sch 40 from Mexico I got looked thin to me, and I asked the plumbing supply place that cut and threaded it about it. He said yes, most of the imports are coming in thin. But after threading it, he said at least the pipe quality was good, compared to the stuff he's seen from Eastern Europe, which has been thin and poor-quality metal.

So apparently all Sch 40 is not the same thickness.

ChrisJ

Precaud said:

Apparently its not all the same thickness. When I fixed my header drip this spring, the 1-1/4" Sch 40 from Mexico I got looked thin to me, and I asked the plumbing supply place that cut and threaded it about it. He said yes, most of the imports are coming in thin. But after threading it, he said at least the pipe quality was good, compared to the stuff he's seen from Eastern Europe, which has been thin and poor-quality metal. So apparently all Sch 40 is not the same thickness.

It's technically supposed to be and Anvil isn't no name stuff and should be from the US.

I suppose anything is possible.

Charlie from wmass

Schedule 40 is scheduled. Measure it if you don't believe me. Micrometers don't lie but people do. As far as doping female threads please don't. Dope threads and 2 wraps of blue monster tape. If it leaks you did something wrong. Jmho.

Charlie from wmass

Most of my pipe is Thailand or Turkey with Chinese or Mexican nipples and American or Chinese fittings. Sharps dies, good oil, and the right size wrenches and you will be fine.
 To the original poster. Nice job. 

ChrisJ

When I feel better I'll measure some that I have but I'm not using a micrometer.   I can get within a few thou using a digital caliper and that's more than good enough.

JUGHNE

Chris, are you ill...maybe the plague...?

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

Chris, are you ill...maybe the plague...?

Stomach problem but no, no fleas here. I didn't know the plague was back?

JUGHNE

I meant the Covid "Plague"..........

The other coast may end up with the Plague from the fleas.

ethicalpaul

Let me know what you find, @ChrisJ, but I was holding the pipe and nipple in my hand and it was more than obvious. Could I have had Sched 80 pipe or something?

thanks @Charlie from wmass!

ChrisJ

ethicalpaul said:

Let me know what you find, @ChrisJ, but I was holding the pipe and nipple in my hand and it was more than obvious. Could I have had Sched 80 pipe or something?

thanks @Charlie from wmass!

I suppose it's possible.   Can you measure it without having a burr on the edge from the cutter effect the measurement?

Where did the pipe come from?  Is there anything on it saying what it is?

Charlie from wmass

I think the reason people view schedule 40 pipe as being thicker than the pipe nipples is most pipe nipples have been reamed and so little cut pipe is ever reamed.

ethicalpaul

The pipe came from supplyhouse. I removed the burr and it’s 130 thousandths thick for the 1-1/4” pipe vs .110” for the Anvil nipple

i have 1” also. It’s .120” compared to .110” for the Anvil nipple. 

I admit though it appears a much greater difference

neilc

what about just weighing the 2 nipps?
assuming equal lengths

ethicalpaul

I don’t have two nipples to compare. I have some nipples that all appear thin walled, and I have lengths of pipe that appear thicker walled.

plus I don’t have a precision scale

Ironman

As we know, NPT pipe threads are tapered, therefore, the thickness of the pipe will be less at the first threads.

If you were to cut the threads off with a band saw, you would find that the nipple is the same thickness as a length of pipe.

ethicalpaul

I agree with you Ironman about the threads, but I did measure the nipple (beyond the threads) vs the pipe and found the pipe wall to be thicker.

I'll cut a nipple and show you

ChrisJ

I just tried to measure one with the threads and couldn't get an accurate measurement. It was all over the place, which, may actually be the pipe as well. I'm sure these things have a huge tolerance.

Honestly not sure why we're even discussing a 0.01", or even a 0.02" difference in wall thickness between black iron pipe / nipples.

A Sch 80 1" pipe would have roughly a 0.179" wall thickness.

ethicalpaul

OK maybe I'm imagining the whole thing, that's why I asked. But I'm still going to cut one of those Anvil nipples and see what's what

ethicalpaul

I generally like the permit/inspection system but my town just charged me $85 for the boiler inspection, and then another $85 for the backflow preventer inspection for the boiler makeup water, that doesn't sound right!

Charlie from wmass

Normal, even cheap. 2 different codes at work. One is fuel other is potable water. Proper inspection costs. Now time for or those in unlicensed areas to complain how unfair it is.

mattmia2

I had something similar happen when I installed my boiler. I think the mechanical permit wasn't so bad, but the electrical permit to cover extending the circuit in the garage to run the unit heater and moving the circuit that was for the old powered vent water heater to the boiler location was excessive for just extending 2 existing circuits.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I just did a boiler & and an indirect in a house I am selling.

$50.00 electrical permit
$50.00 Plumbing permit
$50,00 gas permit

In MA to do a commercial boiler with a combination gas/oil burner you would need all the above + and oilburner/oil tank permit and possibly a sheet metal permit for combustion air and venting

Matt_67

Same thing in my jurisdiction, plumbing permit for the backflow preventer and mechanical permit for the boiler. And probably twice as much as what you paid!

Charlie from wmass

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

I just did a boiler & and an indirect in a house I am selling. $50.00 electrical permit $50.00 Plumbing permit $50,00 gas permit In MA to do a commercial boiler with a combination gas/oil burner you would need all the above + and oilburner/oil tank permit and possibly a sheet metal permit for combustion air and venting

But it varies greatly town by town. In Springfield that would be $85 $85 and $85 and out in eastern Mass it could be a few hundred dollars. This is definitely one of the reasons why we don't talk price on here because they are so variable town by town.