My new helper.

JohnNY

I have a new employee. He's 21 and lives in Paramus, NJ.
Today we drove past The Dakota apartment building which he recognized immediately, pointed to and said "One of The Beatles died there."
I replied,
"Yes."
"John Lennon."
But that name meant nothing to him. He kept pointing and looking. He followed up with a confident challenge, "Did you know that?"
I accepted his challenge with a double-take and equally confident smile. "Yes. It was actually pretty big news when I was 13."
"Oh. That makes sense.", he said.

Old guy 1, Millenial 0.

Later on I had to kneel down and take the model numbers off a constant pressure duplex booster for a large building on Sutton Place. I had trouble getting up. New guy gave me a hand.

I guess we're even.

mattmia2

Use your phone to reach down and take a picture of it next time.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

I guess we're even.

Maybe - just don't let him know.

ChrisJ

Most consider 1996 to be the end of millennials so he would be gen Z.  By a lot.

JohnNY

ChrisJ said:

Most consider 1996 to be the end of millennials so he would be gen Z.  By a lot.

And I was actually 11 on December 8th, 1980 so the whole story is fakakta.

RayWohlfarth

@JohnNY Thanks for the smile I feel your pain with the knees

ChrisJ

JohnNY said:

ChrisJ said:

Most consider 1996 to be the end of millennials so he would be gen Z.  By a lot.

And I was actually 11 on December 8th, 1980 so the whole story is fakakta.

Damn boomers and their exaggerations.

SlamDunk

ChrisJ said:

JohnNY said:

ChrisJ said:

Most consider 1996 to be the end of millennials so he would be gen Z.  By a lot.

And I was actually 11 on December 8th, 1980 so the whole story is fakakta.

Damn boomers and their exaggerations.

11 in 1980...not a boomer. Gen X by five years. Boomers don't need to exaggerate!

ChrisJ

SlamDunk said:

ChrisJ said:

JohnNY said:

ChrisJ said:

Most consider 1996 to be the end of millennials so he would be gen Z.  By a lot.

And I was actually 11 on December 8th, 1980 so the whole story is fakakta.

Damn boomers and their exaggerations.

11 in 1980...not a boomer. Gen X by five years. Boomers don't need to exaggerate!

I meant it as a joke, I know he's not a boomer.

Zman

I've got a feeling that this is the oldest conversation in the world. I suspect the dead men from 130 years ago said the same thing about the dead men from 100 years ago.

Who knows, maybe some of the old cave drawings were really poking fun at the new generation.

All we can really do is pass on as much as we can and make some of it stick before we join the dead ones.

nicholas bonham-carter

This is nothing new, and has been going on for a long time:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=398104

jerryb46

how many of u guys watched the "BEATLES" on ED Sullivan? And seen TOM SEAVER pitch at SHEA.Guess i'm a BOOMER fun too think back.

dopey27177

I am a litter older than a boomer.

Young new helpers are there to pick us up when our body refuses to work the way they used to.

Always give the guy a reward...

The reward is some type of information bout the job at hand, like don't bend your knees to far or you my wind up like me before you reach 50.

Jake

Tim McElwain

At 80 years old I do not remember anything you guys are talking about. As for knees I have not been down on my knees in 5 years (not good for a preacher) trouble is once I get down I can't get up.

EdTheHeaterMan

This discussion has been very entertaining so far. I hope it continues into the next decade.
My grandson still thinks I'm wonderful, He's almost 2.

HVACNUT

I don't know what category I'm in and don't really care. All I know is I was only two at the time of Woodstock and I'm still pi**ed I couldn't go.

Jamie Hall

HVACNUT said:

I don't know what category I'm in and don't really care. All I know is I was only two at the time of Woodstock and I'm still pi**ed I couldn't go.

It was quite the party...

JohnNY

HVACNUT said:

I don't know what category I'm in and don't really care. All I know is I was only two at the time of Woodstock and I'm still pi**ed I couldn't go.

Being born in 1969, I used to think that way. But then I looked into it and realized that most of the bands weren't very good, it rained nearly throughout the concert, it was during a pandemic, bands like The Who came on at 2 AM, there weren't nearly enough toilets or food available for people. ...Woodstock looked like an absolute sh*tshow to me. I'm happy enough to watch it on TV.

HVACNUT

Very true @JohnNY. 

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Being born in 1969, I used to think that way. But then I looked into it and realized that most of the bands weren't very good, it rained nearly throughout the concert, it was during a pandemic, bands like The Who came on at 2 AM, there weren't nearly enough toilets or food available for people. ...Woodstock looked like an absolute sh*tshow to me. I'm happy enough to watch it on TV.

With the addition of tripping on LSD, it took you to the astral plane where you didn't notice the rain, only the kaleidoscopic vibes. If you've ever seen the documentary, you see a lot of happy faces.

HomerJSmith

JohnNY, nobody ever got to where they are today with out a lot of help from others.

I believe the only knowledge we retain is that which is shared with others. I believe knowledge without sharing is sin.

It's our duty to pass on what we know and have learned to our children, co-workers just starting out.

That's what I like about this site, sharing knowledge and experience.

JohnNY, what gives your life meaning is what you pass on. That's commendable. Teach that Newbee everything you know,

rick in Alaska

Wow. Listening to some of you, I didn't know I was one of the old guys! Dang, no wonder my back hurts.
Yeah, I am getting close to retirement age, and I wish I could hire someone to pass the knowledge to, but the hassle of having them have an apprentice license, and have outside schooling, and workmans comp, and being able to keep them working 8 hours a day, and I just can' t make it all happen.
I am thinking maybe just trying to write down a bunch of tricks and how to's, just to have at least something of my experience to pass along.
In my spare time, of course.
Rick

Larry Weingarten

Hi @rick in Alaska , Pondering what you wrote, two things come to mind. First is that you're a REALLY good troubleshooter, and that is a skill that needs to be widely disseminated. Next, is that you could help a lot of people by writing a book, sharing your thought processes, giving examples, and sharing stories. All of that could happen without workman's comp etc. It might even give you some ongoing income! Now, the hard part. What's the title of your book?

Yours, Larry

rick in Alaska

Hm. Not a writer, but if it did happen, and it had a title, I would think something like "proper troubleshooting". I would want it to be mostly heating related, but also to carry on in to other problem solving areas. Except relationships, of course. A lot of problems out there can all follow the same troubleshooting techniques, such as just identifying the problem before even looking for the answer.
Maybe down the road when I have nothing else to do, but as of right now, it is still 8 days a week.
Rick
P.S. Thanks for the kudo's Larry, it means a lot.

HomerJSmith

rick in Alaska said, "Hm. Not a writer..." Hemingway wasn't a writer and look what he achieved.

People are intensely interested in each other. Writing from a view that reveals your humanity or a view that reveals the humanity of Mankind as Hemingway did is a sure winner.

My Mother use to say to me, "You never know what you're capable of, unless you try." Thanks, Mom!

"Happiness is reaching your full expression while benefiting others."- Homer.

Larry Weingarten

Hi @rick in Alaska , Here's another thought. Our phones these days can take voice dictation and do a mostly decent job of putting it into the written word. How about just taking notes about interesting things you think or run across, and collect those in a file? This should take very little time. I take notes this way pretty often and some fun writing has come of it. At some point, when you have a spare two minutes, you might reread what you've put down and begin to see groupings of stories or see what's not there and calling to be filled in. That's one way a book is born.
I imagine that if you just have the collection of experiences and musings written down, it will find a way to become a teaching tool, whether in book form, video, articles, a TED talk, or blog posts. And that has the potential to help lots of people.

Meddlesomely yours, Larry

rick in Alaska

I guess I should think about that some more. I don't feel like I could make enough for a book, but it might be something that could be combined with other peoples info.
Rick

Larry Weingarten

Hi, I suppose one reason I'm so interested in this is because I like troubleshooting. Here's an article I wrote years ago on it: https://www.larryweingarten.com/blog/archives/07-2018 See what you think.

I imagine there are general troubleshooting rules to follow and then, specific things to consider for each piece of equipment and the environment it lives in.

But, to bring this thread back to it's intent, I looked it up and boomers were born between 1946 and 1965. That means I'm a boomer and I must go torment some younger person... Or something.

Yours, Larry

luketheplumber

Larry Weingarten said:

But, to bring this thread back to it's intent, I looked it up and boomers were born between 1946 and 1965. That means I'm a boomer and I must go torment some younger person... Or something.

Give me your worst Larry, I can guarantee you will never torment me as much as a stereotypical millennial.

rick in Alaska

I am right in the middle of the boomer range myself. I don't have anyone to torment, but probably wouldn't anyway, just because.
Anyway, back to the thread. I think we could do a lot better with apprentices if we could have them work for us without any wages. I know there are a lot of rules against it, but my thinking is that people who go to college will pay, out of their pockets, thousands of dollars to get an education, where as if they were working for me, I would give them all my knowledge for free! I do understand that going to college doesn't require any physical work, but you are still going to be training for a few hours a day no matter what.
That would make it so much easier for me to be able to handle an apprentice if I didn't have to worry about having to keep enough paying work going to be able to pay him, or her, for a full day every day. Troubleshooting usually doesn't have the ability to have 8 hour pay days, unless you factor it in in your hourly rate, which you should.
I don't know it seems like everything is just so hard to do anymore. I can't even hire a young kid to dig a small ditch for me without them having an apprentice license. But, it would really be nice to have someone who was excited about what we do to be able to pass our info on to, without having so many rules and fees to have to deal with. It's a pipe dream though.
Ready for the comments now
Rick

Larry Weingarten

OK @luketheplumber , Here's my tormenting. When New York is safe again, get yourself to the General Society and go up to the fourth floor to spend some time in their water heater museum. Book a room at the hotel next door as this could take some time. Look at the heaters for fun, but spend time with the books. Lifetimes of experience are in those books. Particularly, read the books by Frederick Dye. He'll teach you how to see inside of pipes! The book will help you to become the plumber of your dreams! Of course, once you know the physics, there is the human side of the trade to deal with, but that's another torment.

Yours, Larry

ps, I too am waiting for comments on Rick's "pipe dream" comment

JUGHNE

I think Luke should learn plumbing, although he has some interest in steam heating. If Luke makes to the NY general Society he should study the steam system also.

I would like to have an apprentice but the requirements of having an employee are too much.
Even if I were to have a family member get the State Electrical Apprentice license, they would have to be considered an employee.
In my state this info is shared with the dept of labor.
Then workmen's comp and unemployment insurance kicks in.
Even being required to be a state registered contractor I must state if I have any employees. So there are 3 state agencies that compare notes to be sure of my compliance.
This is also a sales tax info quiz to be sure I am compliant with that tax collection.

But if there was a way Luke (or anyone with his interests) could be employed and all the requirements be met, without adding overhead that puts me or anyone having to run at a loss of income, would be a benefit for the trades.

Just a Rant.......

Larry Weingarten

Hi @JUGHNE , A thought. Years ago I had employees and as a small employer, it didn't work very well. It was more of a babysitting job with lots of book-work, that kept me from being productive. More recently, I've used Labor Ready, (now People Ready it seems) to act as an intermediary. I'd find people to work with and let the agency hire them for me. They took care of the book-work and took a small cut. I'm not sure going with an agency like that covers everything you brought up, but it helps.

Yours, Larry

luketheplumber

@rick in Alaska
Not sure if I can agree with you there. When I worked as an apprentice plumber, I made sure that I was helping and working hard on every job that I was on.
I definitely agree on the fact that there are too many rules and regulations,

@Larry Weingarten
Thanks I will definitely stop by there next time I am in new york. I am definitely planning to go to new york by myself when I turn 18 once I have the time and money to go.

@JUGHNE
I am looking for a job in plumbing an HVAC as the old company I worked for couldn't support me during the corona. but now that school has started I have put that goal on the back burner until I get settled and have a break from school.
I am looking to get an apprenticeship with one of the awesome steam gurus on this site as soon as I graduate high school in 2022. But until then, School is my top priority and plumbing and HVAC will be something that I will do on the side in my free time.

rick in Alaska

Not sure what you mean about working hard every day. That has never been a problem with anyone that I have had work for me, and even re-reading my post, I don't believe I even implied it.
Having an apprentice who can work hard is not the issue here, it is being able for employees to be able to hire someone without all the hardships it takes.
It looks to me like you are on the right track, and seems like you have great work skills, so I don't think you will have much problem doing well in this trade.
Rick

BillyO

Finding hard workers easy compared to finding workers who know how to work. Think about it

dopey27177

Hi Rick from Alaska

I wrote a book it took me 5 years to get it at an eighth grade level and have it usable by engineers and home owners.

I wrote the book Steam The Perfect Fluid for Heating and Some of The Problems.

I got a lot out of the the Plumbing and Heating Industry, a comfortable retirement, paid a goodly portion of my 4 grand childrens college educations and was able to travel around the world with my wife of 58 years.

I wrote the book to give back to our industry.
Writing a niche book and getting it published is costly ($10,000+)
My return on this so far is less than $800.00.

Like i said it is give back to the industry that fed me any family for decades.

If you are interested it is available at Barnes and Noble, Amazon and Dorrance Publishing of Pittsburgh PA.

I have a complete chapter on trouble shooting, commercial heating.

Jake