BURNHAM IN8 residental gas boiler pipeing ???

billy42945

Pic show origainal header 2016 the other three show the boiler reconnected this july 2020
Burner was remove to replace house foundation boiler was cut out with sawsall and stored forlast 7 months.
with no regard for the next reconnect the plumber told me one the pic has a hardford loop.
Iam a retired electric contractor of 50 years This is my neigbors house he hired a general contractor to do the job. any coments DAN Holohan told me to post this on the wall
What do think???

STEVEusaPA

I'm assuming the last picture is original and the first 2 are the new piping?
Severely wrong. Mega press?
Simply look at the manual.

ethicalpaul

The last pic looks pretty good. The current situation is a nightmare. Have these people already been paid?

Was that original piping a contraflow main with drips on each leg? Or some other variety I'm not familiar with. But at least the near-boiler work was looking reasonable before.

KC_Jones

Assuming the press fittings are the new, I can't find anything correct in those pictures. There is no header of any kind. The return is connected to the wrong place on the boiler...it just gets uglier as I look.

That boiler is supposed to have 2-2" risers into a 3" header with system takeoff from that header, and the order needs to be correct on the header. riser, riser, system takeoff, return to boiler at end. This appears to be a counterflow system so the use of a Hartford loop is technically optional, not that there is one now.

Someone spent a lot of money on fittings to do it wrong...so sad when there is an actual picture in the manual.

billy42945

ethicalpaul said:

The last pic looks pretty good. The current situation is a nightmare. Have these people already been paid?

Was that original piping a contraflow main with drips on each leg? Or some other variety I'm not familiar with. But at least the near-boiler work was looking reasonable before.

ethicalpaul said:

The last pic looks pretty good. The current situation is a nightmare. Have these people already been paid?

Was that original piping a contraflow main with drips on each leg? Or some other variety I'm not familiar with. But at least the near-boiler work was looking reasonable before.

KC_Jones said:

Assuming the press fittings are the new, I can't find anything correct in those pictures. There is no header of any kind. The return is connected to the wrong place on the boiler...it just gets uglier as I look.

That boiler is supposed to have 2-2" risers into a 3" header with system takeoff from that header, and the order needs to be correct on the header. riser, riser, system takeoff, return to boiler at end. This appears to be a counterflow system so the use of a Hartford loop is technically optional, not that there is one now.

Someone spent a lot of money on fittings to do it wrong...so sad when there is an actual picture in the manual.

ethicalpaul said:

The last pic looks pretty good. The current situation is a nightmare. Have these people already been paid?

Was that original piping a contraflow main with drips on each leg? Or some other variety I'm not familiar with. But at least the near-boiler work was looking reasonable before.

The header was installed in 2016 when new and connected to existing boiler I know that there there were two drips connected to a hardford loop boiler has no proplems with original install.
Sorry for my late replay its the first time I have used site.
Thanks to all of you I will post as soon as I find out the out come.
I am a retired electrician and I mainly did install and troushooting of industrial and residential equipment for over 50 years.

Ironman

In addition to the other issues mentioned, that cast iron circulator won't last long. It needs to be stainless or bronze.

billy42945

Billy,

We’ve received word from the owner of THE Company that this was a huge mistake by his team and they will be fixing it. They have the manual and will be speaking to the furnace manufacturer and Atlas Glen-mor to make sure they fix it properly.

Thank you again for escalating this. I really appreciate it!!

Paul

Paul is the owner He had is original installer inspect WORK THAT was done by the general contractor. I NEVER HAD TO WORK FOR ONE AND NEVER WILL!!

billy42945

People in any trade that have intergery would try to help anyone who needs it and not for profit and sometimes you get more than you think for your efforts,,,.. Even if you not looking for any thing in return. PEOPLE CAN REALY SURPRISE YOU . THANKS

billy42945

ethicalpaul

It's not just those issues in those quoted messages, but it's also the way the steam supply lines are piped that is a real problem. KC's picture from the installation manual must be followed. Good luck!

KC_Jones

Who sent that email and is saying no help is needed?

Also I can't stand the "I've been doing this for X number of years" statements. If one learned wrong, then they've been doing it wrong for X number of years. It also shows they typically aren't interested in learning.

billy42945

its not any one said no help needed but i show them pictures of 2016 and they thought i was a fool and never showed them to thir company you can lead horse to water but you cannot make them drink. I asked for there email and they give me there web site. i will solve this with what i know . i will post (what comes next) also a great novel by John Katsenbach

Some men never learn anything because they understand
every thing to soon.
You can not teach someone who thinks they already know it. !!!

billy42945

ITS NOT THE
CROOK IN MORDEN BUSINESS YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ITS THE HONSET MAN WHO DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING.


HE KEEPS COMEING BACK WHILE THE CROOK JUST RUNS AWAY !!

billy42945

Can compression connectors on a steam boiler header

EdTheHeaterMan

What temperature are the o-ring seals on these fittings rated? More than 250°F? That will answer your query.

check out the FKM sealing element. this is a higher temperature element than the standard element. Check with manufacturer rep of the fittings. So far, I don't see any reference to steam.

STEVEusaPA

I wouldn’t even think about trying it.

billy42945

Are the cast fittings used in the past because of ther expansion rather than copper. Can these new compression fittings expand to take pressure of the boiler sections

billy42945

With these new connectors everyone thinks they are a pipe fitter.or excuse this a carpenter who thinks he can do anyones Trade !

mattmia2

The piping should be arranged so a threaded joint can turn a little to take up expansion of sections, it should not be pressing on the fitting itself.

EdTheHeaterMan

Just looked at your other post. If that is your boiler with the megaPress fittings, I think you should insist on the contractor using the threaded fittings that are in the manufacturer's instructions.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Mega Press for steel and Propress for copper are both approved by Viega for low pressure steam.

I would not use them..................just sayin

billy42945

Has any one have pictures of a boiler header useing
Mega Press fittings to complete a hardford loop.or does Burnham IN 8 steam boiler allow them on this boiler on the header??

EdTheHeaterMan

Boiler manufacturer will not be so specific as to say you must use steel or iron or copper pipe or what fitting choices to use. This way the contractor can try anything. if it works then the manufacturer will never find out about it. If there is a problem then they will find out about it and make a recommendation to solve the problem.

Off Topic kind'a:

In the 1970's I worked for a plumbing contractor who used the new-fangled plastic pipe for higher temperature water so you could use it on water heaters.

Before I started working for him, he decided to try it on a steam boiler. Showed me a picture of the drop header, Hartford loop, and all the other good stuff that goes into a steam boiler. Great before and after pictures of the job.

Then there was another set of after... after pictures. LOL, I wish I had them for the Wall of Shame.

Never did get all the melted plastic off the boiler jacket.

motoguy128

I could see using it for the return piping and Hartford loop, but not sure about the drop header. Especially since it acts as a swing joint and most a little with piping expansion.

Ironman

As Ed mentioned, the fittings are approved for steam, but I doubt that I would ever use them for a steam header and here's a different reason why: I have threading equipment that will do up to 4". The MegaPress fittings and tools for the larger sizes are extremely expensive and make no economic sense for me to purchase them for that purpose. I have three ProPress tools and MegaPress that can do up to 2", but we can cut and thread more economically on just about anything.

One job where the MegaPress was a real time saver was running overhead gas lines in a warehouse where everything was done on a lift. We just cut the lines to their approximate length on the ground and then trimmed them with a portable band saw up in the air. Then MegaPressed them. No constant going up and down to cut and thread cut the installation time in half.

billy42945

Thanks for your help and replay as soon I get chance read my post about the pipeing on the Burnham IN 8 boiler related to thi post.

billy42945

billy42945

The plumping co.who installed what you see was inspected buy the burnham rep. And the company who has service on this 4 year boiler note no header the plumbing co. Excuse was they had no manual . The header drawing is on the boiler gas connection cover with the electrical diagrams.
Two pipes out the boiler so they did two steam zones as shown.
Because they did not have manual they installed to returns with
Wih No Hartford loop . CHECK OUT THE OTHER PICTURES.

Note they say they are going to fix it but I think they after
Need a shovel and did dig a steam fitter. Dan Hol
ahan said you would gag at this Post.
If these people come back as they said they will???
I will post what they did to correct this.

billy42945

billy42945

The plumping co.who installed what you see was inspected buy the burnham rep. And the company who has service on this 4 year boiler note no header the plumbing co. Excuse was they had no manual . The header drawing is on the boiler gas connection cover with the electrical diagrams.
Two pipes out the boiler so they did two steam zones as shown.
Because they did not have manual they installed to returns with
Wih No Hartford loop . CHECK OUT THE OTHER PICTURES.

Note they say they are going to fix it but I think they after
Need a shovel and did dig a steam fitter. Dan Hol
ahan said you would gag at this Post.
If these people come back as they said they will???
I will post what they did to correct this.

Ironman

Where is this?

billy42945

If it in the rules of the web site I give you addresses of every
Every one !! For now it's in Massachusetts. Let me know if I can say More !! ??

billy42945

Image of email quote to General supervisor about why his co pany piped the the boiler in question this way the boiler is 4 years old with serial #and header diagrams inside where gas co section is they had to take remove door to connect gas.

Dual main boiler where does this come from on a 4 year old boiler???

billy42945

How can someone look at a burnham IN 8 boiler with two 2 inch pipes coming out of the top and make this assumption with serial and model on the steam boiler . That is a dual main an pipe it with two feeds and two returns without hardford loops note the boiler is only 4 years old installed in 2016

Steamhead

Because they didn't read the freakin' manual!

The Steam Whisperer

I am afraid these are the words of a complete incompetant when it comes to steam boiler installation. All cast iron boilers require (or "recommend" in Weil Mclain's case) a steam header, no exceptions. I have unfortunately seen that most steel boiler manufacturers do not require a header, even when it is desperately needed for the tiny steam outlets on huge commercial boilers.

STEVEusaPA

Why did you start another thread about the same boiler

STEVEusaPA

3 threads about the same boiler. You’re confusing the people trying to help you.

mattmia2

I think you need to make the gc get someone who knows steam to fix it.

billy42945

THIS dual main comment comes from the production manager of the PLUMPING Company doing the jop to the Generial Contractor's supervisor. After I informed the owner that he should get his service contractor and original installer to get involved they called in the burnham REP. and they looked it.
The production manager told me that the team did this without his knowledge .What story do want to believe ???
COVER YOUR **** BLAME THE HELP!!! TO HIS BOSS.
AND SNOW THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR.
Do you NEED A MANGER LIKE THIS

I HAVE WOKED FOR OWNERS OF ELECTRICAL COTRACTORS
THAT THROW THER PEOPLE UNDER THE BUS.

billy42945

Because I never heard of dual head boiler check it out
Sorry I am new at this posting But post was about a dual head steam boiler . I did not make this up !!