Mandatory "Stay at Home" orders

EBEBRATT-Ed

@SlamDunk
You mean like Senator Rand Paul. He got tested a few days ago, had no symptoms, didn't think he had it. Went swimming at the Capital Pool with Mitt Romney & Mike Lee of Utah yesterday. After leaving the gym he find out he is positive. Now all three are in isolation.

No too smart

hot_rod

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@SlamDunk
You mean like Senator Rand Paul. He got tested a few days ago, had no symptoms, didn't think he had it. Went swimming at the Capital Pool with Mitt Romney & Mike Lee of Utah yesterday. After leaving the gym he find out he is positive. Now all three are in isolation.

No too smart

Not Dr. Rand Paul!!? What about that Hippocratic Oath "do no harm" At least he has a nice government health care benefit should it take a turn for the worse.

pecmsg

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@SlamDunk
You mean like Senator Rand Paul. He got tested a few days ago, had no symptoms, didn't think he had it. Went swimming at the Capital Pool with Mitt Romney & Mike Lee of Utah yesterday. After leaving the gym he find out he is positive. Now all three are in isolation.

No too smart

That is the problem with this disease, 10 - 14 days as a carrier and transmitter with NO symptoms. How many people have you come in contact with, door knobs, hand rails, newspapers, Money have you touched? How many other people have touched these items after you did?

MikeL_2

Some of our leaders are setting flawed examples by / with their conduct. Potus shaking many hands while live on TV? John Wooden said it best " it's not practice makes perfect, it's perfect practice makes perfect "!

Fred

I have to say, I am proud of the logic and concern that some of these posts exhibit but I'm equally disappointed at the selfishness and disregard for human life that others offer up. Life matters more than the inconvenience a few weeks of restricted movement poses. The array of opinions shown in this thread is exactly why someone has to make the tough decisions to issue these restrictions. Some say, If it doesn't benefit me, I'm not interested. If it inconveniences me, I'm not interested. What will you say when the loss of life approaches your home or your loved ones? You will say our government should have done more! This could have been avoided! Selfish, selfish, Selfish! For those who will do as they please, may God protect you from your own ignorance and may you not be the carrier that welcomes this virus into you homes. That is my prayer for you and I'm not considered a religious man, just a humane one.

ChrisJ

Bleh that link won't work...

Jamie Hall

"In a military what is the price for disobeying a direct order? ". It varies. Court Martial, of course. But what happens after that depends on the severity of the offence. It should be noted that in some cases a part of the service person's defence can be that the order was misguided... shall we say. In those cases, it is not unheard of for the superior to also be court martialed, particularly if the order put his or her men or women in danger.

Unless, of course, the order was part of the politically motivated Rules of Engagement from the Head Shed -- which is what accounted for a lot of the casualties in Vietnam and parts of the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. Do not ever go there .

gennady

We stopped all work this week for now. Except emergency. No need to risk health of everyone. No need to spread this virus.

HVACNUT

All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.

- Blaise Pascal

SlamDunk

“It took 67 days from the first reported case to reach the first 100,000 cases, 11 days for the second 100,000 and just four days for the third 100,000.”-Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, WHO

Not looking very good.

ChrisJ

HVACNUT said:

All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.



- Blaise Pascal

I'm very good at it, especially if I'm trying to solve a problem.

Fred

@Jamie Hall we are humans and each of our errors of the past should be learning experiences going forward. I appreciate how this situation has affected your family but, at this point they are all still alive and that is what matters most. Let's hope these decisions intended to be actions that err on the side of our safety and wellbeing yield positive results and that we all will be able to look back on this experience and know we did our part, if nothing other than to follow the mandates. Trust me, we are all experiencing the financial impact of this virus. It means nothing if we or those we love aren't around to rebuild and rebound. We are in the early stages of this crisis. We have yet to experience the real test of our will.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Well said @Fred

Massachusetts just went "stay at home if not essential"

TG when this happened we had a robust economy and mostly full employment, if we didn't it would be worse.

I am worried about people losing their jobs, but it seems the only way to knock this down is a shutdown. I think the faster we get this over with the faster we get back to work.

I think the economy will rebound quickly.

Most will get there jobs back

I am mostly worried about the small business and their employees. Large companies will probably survive, some will even prosper. I had my own business at one time. This probably would have wiped me out.

The insurance, rent, workers comp, vehicle payments are all bills that will not stop virus or not

The Steam Whisperer

I disagree about the robust economy.... The average American worker has not seen a pay increase in 40 years despite a doubling of productivity.... so few have any savings for potential hard times. All that money the economy is generating is going into a few hands and its unlikely that very many of those hands are going to be willing to part with their gains to help put the economy back on its feet. Low wage earners are likely getting hit the hardest.... i.e. service jobs, laborers, etc which are making way less than they did 40, 50, and sixty years ago when you only needed about 35% of the minimum wage to have a place to live.... the number is now about 80% of minimum wage. If the feds don't step up and put a halt and restart of the economy to provide relief for those that can't pay thier mortgages, car payments, and other debt, the economy could collapse. Things are looking a lot like the economy during the Hoover administration ( major economic indicators are about where they were at the end of the roaring 20's) and it appears our current president is likely to respond as Hoover did.... just like the economy work itself out. Fortunately, there still seems to be some common sense in both branches.... the Senate and House so if need be hopefully they will prevail and not support a repeat of the Hoover errors of not interfering in the warped economy we have now and did then.
For some perspective on the current shutdown, I was speaking to a truly lovely and classy member of my church congregation ( via phone) that lived through the bombings of England by the Nazis and she said this feels just like that did. Ladies and Gentlemen, it is very likely we are a country ( and world) under attack and need to make the same kind of sacrifices the English did during their 6 years of going without and living very limited lives to help ensure their society will survive.

Jean-David Beyer

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

But another quote goes: "Do unto others as you would have the do unto you."

I happen to agree with both. Life is complicated sometimes.

GW

Steamwhisperer where does that information come from? “Average worker hasn’t seen a pay increase in 40 years”? Are you taking minimum wage workers?

Jamie Hall

Jean-David Beyer said:

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

But another quote goes: "Do unto others as you would have the do unto you."

I happen to agree with both. Life is complicated sometimes.

The fundamental quote, @Jean-David Beyer , is the Second Great Commandment: Love your neighbor as yourself. I could write a sermon on that. Indeed, I have. It is a very difficult subject when times get tough. For a contemporary Christian study on the subject, may I recommend On Politics, by Reinhold Niebuhr. It is not easy reading -- in fact, almost 400 pages of very clear but detailed argument -- but it addresses the cobwebs and false arguments which can so easily arise. And explains, among other things, why sometimes it is necessary for a person to do seemingly unloving things, or to sacrifice himself or herself for the benefit of other persons

GW

Trump has a point- how many deaths will result of non virus reasons if they can’t work? Not an easy topic

EBEBRATT-Ed

@GW agreed

I can see stressed out people committing sucide due to losing their job etc. Congress needs to act TODAY to get thease people some money. It probably won't be enough but should help

We got 2-3 weeks more to get over the hump I think

GW

Always something, Nancy wants to tie in the relief to some wild stuff.

Fred

GW said:

Always something, Nancy wants to tie in the relief to some wild stuff.

Yea, like getting a justifiable portion of it to working people instead of bailing out major corporations.

ChrisJ

Easy guys.

Sadly it's extremely easy to figure out which side everyone in here votes for just by their comments. Try not to be biased, we're all Americans (except those from other countries). It doesn't matter who you vote for, we're all on the same team.

Both sides play games, both sides only feed us the news they want us to hear. Stop falling for it.

SlamDunk

Yeah, I agree with @ChrisJ . Let's talk about the politicians ,on both sides, who cashed out before the crash. They are the only bad guys in this story.

Everyone else is either competent or incompetent.

Fred

@ChrisJ , you might be surprised which side I'm on, but then again, you might not be. I like being fair and ignoring "sides".

EBEBRATT-Ed

What we really need is term limits. In Western MA. where I am our rep in the House of Representatives has been in for about 30 years. He basically got the seat handed to him. The guy before him had the seat since 1947. Give me a break.

I don't care how good people think he is or isn't that just too long. 73 years and 2 people hold the seat.

But, you do need people with experience. I say 5 2 year terms for the house. 10 years. and 3 6 year terms for the Senate 18 years

MikeL_2

In an effort of extreme humanitarianism, our potus should consider offering his hotels & resorts as satellite health care facilities; he would win the next election in a landslide.........

mikeg2015

> @Jamie Hall said:
> Now that I can buy, @ChrisJ . If you are sick or think you are, stay home. If you think you may have been exposed to someone who is, stay home. Practice social distancing in most situations. Not a problem. I'm all for it.
>
> But take responsibility to do so on yourself! Don't ask Big Brother to do it for you -- or to force it on someone else. That's where all this has gone astray.


This virus is contagious when 1) you are as-symptomatic. 2) before you show symptoms.

Other flu strains did not show these traits to this degree.

If you overwhelm the healthcare system, then the other non CV19 patients can not be treated either. Car accident, heart attack, bad staph infection. Your dead. Most hard hit areas established separate hospitals for these patients. The trouble is, many are also CV19 carriers so quickly that hospital is infected too.

All nay sayers need to look at NYC now. It’s still only in the early stages. About 2 weeks from peak. Any most “freedoms” are cancelled. So it will peak again as we release people in a couple weeks.

ChrisJ

> @mikeg2015 said:
> > @Jamie Hall said:
> > Now that I can buy, @ChrisJ . If you are sick or think you are, stay home. If you think you may have been exposed to someone who is, stay home. Practice social distancing in most situations. Not a problem. I'm all for it.
> >
> > But take responsibility to do so on yourself! Don't ask Big Brother to do it for you -- or to force it on someone else. That's where all this has gone astray.
>
>
> This virus is contagious when 1) you are as-symptomatic. 2) before you show symptoms.
>
> Other flu strains did not show these traits to this degree.
>
> If you overwhelm the healthcare system, then the other non CV19 patients can not be treated either. Car accident, heart attack, bad staph infection. Your dead. Most hard hit areas established separate hospitals for these patients. The trouble is, many are also CV19 carriers so quickly that hospital is infected too.
>
> All nay sayers need to look at NYC now. It’s still only in the early stages. About 2 weeks from peak. Any most “freedoms” are cancelled. So it will peak again as we release people in a couple weeks.
>

Not looking good.....

mikeg2015

Nope. Looks as bad or worse than Italy. Which has peaked. But again. The spread stopped because of quarantine. When that’s lifted.... the boulder start rolling downhill again.

It will Take 9-12 months to completely clear this through the system. There’s no practical containment. The virus is too robust and again, is active in as-symptomatic patients, especially children.

All indications are still about 10x higher mortality than seasonal flu. So 300-600k will die.

The quarantine simply slows the spread so the healthcare system can treat a much higher number of flu patients that they normally see.

GW

My simple mind cannot square this up with the common flu. How do you so many people die every year of the flu?

ChrisJ

GW said:

My simple mind cannot square this up with the common flu. How do you so many people die every year of the flu?

Pneumonia.

The same thing that's killing people now, just not as likely as it is with this disease.

Sal Santamaura

mikeg2015 said:

...300-600k will die...

You're an optimist. My lifelong motto has been "A pessimist is never disappointed, only pleasantly surprised."

I say between one and two million in the U.S.

mikeg2015

> @Sal Santamaura said:
> (Quote)
> You're an optimist. My lifelong motto has been "A pessimist is never disappointed, only pleasantly surprised."
>
> I say between one and two million in the U.S.

Depends on whether we go “back to business” by Easter as I’ve read the President is saying and what that means. . I think it’s too early.

ChrisJ

Wonder how many back then claimed it was a hoax....

Fred

ChrisJ said:

Wonder how many back then claimed it was a hoax....

I have a brother, in Italy, and with all the dead bodies surrounding him, he still believes it is a hoax and a conspiracy by the governments around the world to disrupt and eliminate small businesses. Some people are just too far inside their own heads. IDK.