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Changes coming to NYC that affect us all

Larry WeingartenLarry Weingarten Member Posts: 1,705
Hello, Attached is a statement from New York's mayor about planned changes coming up for The City. I particularly note the end of fossil fuels. Big changes! How do we adapt?

Yours, Larry
vibert_c

Comments

  • STEVEusaPASTEVEusaPA Member Posts: 3,947
    Glad I'm not a landlord in NYC.
    Nothing in there about working on the homeless problem, or the opioid problem.
    steve
    SuperTech
  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,022
    How much of nyc currently burns fossil fuel on site vs using district steam?
  • dopey27177dopey27177 Member Posts: 219
    Here is a city that will fall apart because the real estate taxes on one and two family homes is the highest in the country. When I left Staten Island my taxes was $2700.00. Today that house is taxed at $4000.00.

    I had a small consulting company and had to pay $1500 state tax.$1500 City Tax, $500.00 public transportation tax for public transportation of which I did not use. Each day I drove my car into the city I paid $15.00 dollars to use the Verazzano Bridge.

    This was all before I was able to bill my first customer in the new year.

    Here Mayor de Blassio is going to help all the poor people with what money New York City denied Amazon entry into the business world of New York where Amazon would have caused a enormous amount of new construction and added 50,000 new jobs to a blighted area in Queens New York.

    Besides those 50,000 jobs there would have been new restaurants, Apparel stores, dry cleaners and countless other small businesses.

    He is going to end fossil fuel entry into N.Y.C.
    Con ed the electric power company uses natural gas and oil to generate electricity. How will Con Ed be able charge the electric car and truck batteries without expanding the electric generating stations in the city.

    What is going to happen to all the buildings in N.Y.C. that us natural gas and oil for heating and electric for A/C.

    As I read the manifesto he said he would lower fines by half on small business but he did not say that the inspectors will not increase there visits to make up for the loss in revenue.

    The same goes for the commercial landlords with some kind of taxation for keeping stores vacant to get a better price for the rental.

    I can go on and on but I am happy I relocated to Florida 18 years ago.

    Jake

    B_Sloane
  • Intplm.Intplm. Member Posts: 1,079
    A twenty year plan to end fossil fuel use? Thats big. It will need to be presented in phases . That will probably take thirty plus years. Adapting over that time frame? It can happen. It's a start.
    mattmia2MikeL_2
  • FredFred Member Posts: 8,365
    I doubt this plan had any meaningful thought behind it, unless he plans to offer huge grants and subsidies (with some of those tax dollars) to make the transition to renewable energies possible. Most ordinances, of this nature, grandfather current structures and only require a change when older systems fail and replacement systems are required.
    @dopey27177, I don't know the value of the home you had in NY but I can tell you I'm in Ohio and I pay $5K a year on my home and another $4K a year on a four unit I own, next door. The other taxes you mention do seem extraordinary.
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 13,659
    He doesn't say what he wants to replace fossil fuels with.

    I'm assuming electricity, which at least for the moment is largely generated by fossil fuels.

    Then there's the issue of supplying all that extra electricity that buildings will need if they no longer use oil or gas. This will certainly require massive upgrades to the grid. In my neighborhood, the grid is so strained during the summer that available voltage can drop to 105 or 103. If every house therein were heated with electricity, it would almost certainly crash the grid completely.

    We'll see how it goes.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 12,314
    First off... nothing is free. Somebody, somewhere, pays -- whether in time and labour or in money. Something which this school of economics seems to have forgotten.

    Second, as @Fred said, this is all political garbage. I have no doubt that some of it may come to pass -- the all electric vehicle fleet for the city, for instance, which the government can force on the city. Where the money will come from? See paragraph 1. All of it may come to pass, if we roll over and allow governments to force things to happen. As I used to tell my students, if you give an engineer enough money and the political force is there, you can do almost anything you can think of.

    The one thing that really blows me away, though... is the comment on hydro-electric power. His Honor seems to forget that hydro-electric power, while zero emission in operation, isn't during construction. Nor is it environmentally sound -- a dam and the associated reservoir do irreversible damage to the river and the surrounding area on which they are situated. Nor is it particularly socially acceptable -- most that power will come from Quebec, which has possibly the worst record of considering disadvantaged and minority people of any government entity in North America (we need a new dam to service New York? Lots of new money? No problem! Oh? There's a First Nations group in the area? Too bad, so sad, out you go.) Then there are the new transmission lines across New England...

    Green New Deal? My hat. You'd be better off moving to Caracas.

    End of rant.
    Br. Jamie, osb

    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.

    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
    SuperTechJUGHNEkcoppSolid_Fuel_Man
  • BillyOBillyO Member Posts: 123
    Diblasio a Blowhole
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Member Posts: 760
    edited February 8
    "
    Here is a city that will fall apart because the real estate taxes on one and two family homes is the highest in the country. When I left Staten Island my taxes was $2700.00. Today that house is taxed at $4000.00"

    Doubt it. From a far southern view, 4k sounds like a deal compared to nyc. (& NC).. I know, I know, some people consideR SI part of NYC. Not many though. :)

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 200
    The only thing that will save NY .... NJ and the Island is worse. My place in PA can't get built fast enough for me
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 6,703
    He will be voted out. Some of it will happen as time goes on but getting rid of oil and gas in 20years.

    Not a chance

    MA Governor Baker wan'ts to do something similar
  • The Steam WhispererThe Steam Whisperer Member Posts: 473
    What a bunch of non sense..... OH we must use zero fossil fuels. Nobody seems to be thinking things through. The earth can process a certain level of fossil fuel use. What we appear to have done is way overshot this level. Cutting energy use is the first step.... How many people are still using incadescent lighting, grosslly oversized heating and cooling equipment, have no attic insulation and no storm windows and drive whenever possible. For high density housing ( row houses, multi- unit buildings), per square foot heating and cooling energy use is lowest. Using fossil fuels to serve these markets are about the only sensible ways to deal with them. Spreading people out on large lots ( the suburbs) with solar arrays just drives up the energy used for transportation.... everyone has to drive because mass transit is unaffordable at low housing densities.

    Think!
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
    STEAM DOCTOR
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 12,314

    It scares me that the government gets to pick the winners and losers in a free market. I believe competition between the utilities leads to lower costs and keeps the utility companies honest. For years we have heard about how fragile and outdated the grid is What will happen when we have to add all this electrical loads?

    It's not going to be pretty, Ray.
    Br. Jamie, osb

    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.

    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
    SuperTechratio
  • MikeL_2MikeL_2 Member Posts: 236
    edited February 9
    Thanks for sharing Mayor DeBlasios visions, Larry, and thanks also for your insight. " How do we adapt " is a great starting question as it applies to most of the challenges facing our troubled world.
    This press release will be controversial but it will generate discussion, hopefully mostly respectful. And when idea's, opinions, experiences, facts, successes, visions, efforts, and failures are shared, there is an increase in awareness, and an opportunity for learning.
    Larry Weingarten
  • JohnNYJohnNY Member Posts: 2,424
    edited February 9
    The rest of the country needs to know just what a remarkably worthless **** DeBlasio is. He's legally changed his name three times. His wife has "lost" an inconceivable amount of taxpayer money, close to a billion dollars. He's recreated a homeless crisis the likes of which I can't compare in my lifetime of 51 years living in NYC. He's terrible to the police and openly dislikes and badmouths them in public. He's eliminated bail for hardened criminals, repeat offenders, and illegal aliens. He purports to hate the wealthy yet is himself very well off and owns two homes. His repeated claims about reductions in crime in New York are absolute nonsense. There are more panhandlers and wandering lunatics than ever before. Everyone I know has a street crime story including apartment and car break-ins, pickpocket thefts, and fair jumping is now a practically accepted way to ride the subways.
    He ran virtually unopposed for his second term and the election saw one of the lowest turnouts in mayoral election history, but that's why he's the mayor again. Whatever he does in his remaining two years will hopefully be overturned by the next mayor, providing he's not similarly incompetent.
    For installations, troubleshooting, and private consulting services, find John "JohnNY" Cataneo here at :
    "72°F Mechanical, LLC"
    Or email John at [email protected]
    John is the Boilers and Hydronic Heating Systems Course Instructor at NYC's Mechanics Institute, a professional Master Plumber, licensed by The Department of Buildings of The City of New York, and works extensively in NYC while consulting for clients in and out of state.
    John also oversees mechanical installations and maintenance for metro-area clients with his family's company, Gateway Plumbing and Heating along with his brother/business partner.
    SuperTechSTEAM DOCTORSTEVEusaPA
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 12,314
    MikeL_2 said:

    Thanks for sharing Mayor DeBlasios visions, Larry, and thanks also for your insight. " How do we adapt " is a great starting question as it applies to most of the challenges facing our troubled world.

    This press release will be controversial but it will generate discussion, hopefully mostly respectful. And when idea's, opinions, experiences, facts, successes, visions, efforts, and failures are shared, there is an increase in awareness, and an opportunity for learning.

    I have no quarrel with how we adapt and increases in awareness and opportunities for learning. None at all. However, when how we adapt gets rephrased as some variation on "you will adapt your life to my vision of how it will be" I have a serious problem -- particularly when that vision does not seem to be illuminated by much of anything but slogans and sound bites, never mind sound science or consideration for others in different situations.
    Br. Jamie, osb

    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.

    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
    ratio
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 6,703
    And now New York State will give any illegal allien a drivers license and they are being sued by Dept. of Homeland Security because of it
  • clammyclammy Member Posts: 2,449
    Can’t agree with you enough John , it s like every time he opens his mouth it’s like opening a garbage can except instead of seeing garbage your hearing garbage outta his mouth lid .i can’t believe his wife evaporated all the coin in administrative costs, and his son worked for him on his campaign and now he has Ben Carson doing his wife’s old job all I can say is oi vey . Listen to him talk about advancing the city and getting rid of oil and gas you already know if it happenes he will surly have his duck$ all lined up and in the right place to profit . Remember he used to hang with Hillary so it’s the same end game goal . I think the game changer would be residential con gen w solar using natural gas become viable and affordable to a regular home owner living in a small 1200 sq ft home . It would give the power companies and politicians a run for there money .they certainly wouldn’t have transmission lose and no ancient grid needing complete over haul . You de have your own energy independence and sell back to them what you don’t use or store. I think all this ridding the earth of fossil fuel may come bout but at this stage I think the power companies are looking at any angle to get some body else to pay to up grade there ancient grid and might as well start the brain washing now w a younger generation who will know nothing of the greatest generation and the past just the new history . If all else fails the government will bail them out w our money and none of our say . It’s always easy to spend some one else money . Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    SuperTech
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Member Posts: 760
    @JohnNY
    The rest of the country knows. It is why he was booted out of the democratic presidential race in a NY minute.

    @EBEBRATT-Ed
    Many states give out licenses to illegals. We may as well stop fighting Amongst ourselves over the immigrants who are here illegally and make them legal.

    Farmer after farmer, whether they use legal migrant workers or illegals, have said publicly, and often, that Americans dont want to do farm work. They rely heavily on immigrants.

    If you love farmers, you have to love the labor they hire to deliver food to your pantry.
    MikeL_2ethicalpaul
  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 200
    Most are not old enough to remember how bad NYC got in the 70's .. it can happen again
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 12,314
    edited February 10
    on more peaceful thought...

    I've taken this post down, and I apologise if I've managed to upset anyone.
    Br. Jamie, osb

    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.

    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
    Larry Weingarten
  • Jean-David BeyerJean-David Beyer Member Posts: 2,656
    Here is a city that will fall apart because the real estate taxes on one and two family homes is the highest in the country. When I left Staten Island my taxes was $2700.00. Today that house is taxed at $4000.00.


    It is worse in New Jersey. When I bought my little Cape-Cod house in 1976, the property tax was $800/year. Now it is over $6000/year.

    I have a W-M Ultra-3 heating system that also supplies hot water. I have lots of insulation. Almost all my lighting is LED, but my front door light is a CFL. I have no air conditioner.

    The orientation of my house means that solar panels on the roof would not make much sense, and my property is too small to put them anywhere else. Electric heat would be supplied by JCP&L which is mainly coal, but a lot of nuclear. My nearest nuclear power plant is around 50 miles away, and it is the same design as Fukushima, but even older. Makes me feel really confident.
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Member Posts: 760
    edited February 10
    Why work all day in the broiling sun when you can go to California or New York and get all the privileges and percs -- driver's license, you get to vote, you get your welfare, the whole thing -- and do nothing at all?

    @Jamie Hall

    Are you sure they have free access to welfare and voting rights? Because when I visit the Bronx, the immigrants I see sleep four hours a day, do crap work that none of us would do, and become uber drivers the rest of the time. My experience is, other than public education, they arent getting much for free in NYC.

    I'd rather work in the broiling sun than live on the edge during winter in NYC.
  • Erin Holohan HaskellErin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 1,253
    Unless your post relates directly to the heating industry, please do not post about politics. Thank you.
    President
    HeatingHelp.com
  • hot_rodhot_rod Member Posts: 12,890
    All the big high rise going up in cities west NW and western Canada, there is no gas pipeline capacity either. That plays into going electric on new high load projects.

    So maybe it is easier to upgrade the grid compared to underground fuel piping? Up size wires, upsize voltages on transmission lines.

    Interesting challanges.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • BobZmudaBobZmuda Member Posts: 10
    Here in Minnesota they talk a big game about going to 100% renewable energy. The part they leave out is that their definition of renewable includes natural gas LOL.

    Just pure propaganda to make people feel good.

    My electric rates are going up and xcel energy is buying up and building natural gas burning power plants.

    Natural gas rates will follow soon as they’re forced to burn more of it for power. At 50% efficiency (including delivery losses). So green..
  • Larry WeingartenLarry Weingarten Member Posts: 1,705
    edited February 11
    Hello, I posted this originally as it is clear that electrification is a trend that isn't going away and technicians will need to adapt somehow to the new landscape. If we drag our heels, others will likely step in to do the work. I didn't mean to incite politics. It just seemed to me that with all the know how here, we should be able to start figuring out what the future will look like and be positioning ourselves to be ready for it. Clearly more efficiency and heat pumps are in our future. Maybe with more thermally efficient buildings, we could use heat pumps to "warm" radiators? Seems to me, the brain trust here belongs at the front of this change, not following it. We don't want to go the way of the carriage makers!

    Yours, Larry
    BobZmuda
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