Filter Drier Blew Apart

RayWohlfarth

I was asked to look at a no ac call today at my church and the filter drier blew apart and the tubing wrapped around another pipe. Have you ever heard of this? The red arrow shows the tubing wrapped around another pipe. The green arrow is where it used to be.

ratio

What's the outdoor coil look like? Outdoor fan? The TXV? Abnormally high head pressure coupled with a poor solder joint would be my guess

EBEBRATT-Ed

Why didn't the hp switch shut it down? I agree about the bad brazing

pecmsg

Check the HP Safety. Compressor relief should have opened long before the drier did.

Contact the manufacture and file a report!

RayWohlfarth

Thanks
@ratio The condenser coil was cleaned a week ago. The unit is a 2 year old Carrier air cooled chiller. It looks like the filter dryer just blew apart.
@EBEBRATT-Ed and @pecmsg We checked the error history and it did not show high head pressures We checked the high head pressure switch in the spring
This is strange
Ray

ratio

Looking at the picture again, the filter/dryer separated along a seam, not a braze joint. There's two sensors in the hot gas line, so I assume that one is a HP switch and one is a pressure transducer. It's unlikely that the discharge pressure was anything out of the ordinary.

The filter/dryer failure was catastrophic, not what you'd expect from a leak.

Manufacturing defect caused a mechanical failure of the seam of the filter/dryer.

RayWohlfarth

@ratio Thats what I was thinking
Probably the cheapest one Carrier could find

Ironman

Ray, I see both ends of the drier but not the middle. It failed at two places simultaneously?

ratio

Looks like the cylinder on the bottom half to me, but it's hard to see in the pic. Still, for it to have whipped the copper around like that, it would have had to let go basically all at once. I wonder if it was even welded? Perhaps the paint was all that was holding it together! I've seen more than one (plumbing) joint held together by flux.

moar pix!!!1!

RayWohlfarth

@Ironman I think parts of the dryer are all over the floor
@ratio I know never saw one do that in 40 years I love that I learn something everyday

ratio

I don't see any signs of a weld on the lip of that dryer.

Maybe I should start rapping them on the edge to see if they're put together properly!

RayWohlfarth

@ratio I will certainly be checking them more carefully now Thanks

pecmsg

RayWohlfarth said:

Thanks
@ratio The condenser coil was cleaned a week ago. The unit is a 2 year old Carrier air cooled chiller. It looks like the filter dryer just blew apart.
@EBEBRATT-Ed and @pecmsg We checked the error history and it did not show high head pressures We checked the high head pressure switch in the spring
This is strange
Ray

In that case bad drier! Hope I don't get any of those.

I would still be informing Carrier tech Support

RayWohlfarth

@pecmsg We have been at the Carrier distributor and they are all confused. LOL

pecmsg

RayWohlfarth said:

@pecmsg We have been at the Carrier distributor and they are all confused. LOL

Carrier Tech Support with a full report and pictures.

That may have to be reported to consumer product safety!

pecmsg

@RayWohlfarth

Is that a water cooled or Chiller unit?

HVACNUT

Is the HP switch downstream of the drier? If the drier was plugged, the pressure at the outlet side would be low enough to not open the circuit.

Matt_67

I’m curious what other components are on the rest of the refrigeration system. I could imagine if liquid refrigerant was trapped between that electronic txv and some component upstream of the dryer that a small temperature change could cause a large pressure change during an off cycle.

ChrisJ

Matt_67 said:

I’m curious what other components are on the rest of the refrigeration system. I could imagine if liquid refrigerant was trapped between that electronic txv and some component upstream of the dryer that a small temperature change could cause a large pressure change during an off cycle.

There's plenty of TXV and EEV systems with filter driers out there.
You don't see them exploding all of the time during the off cycle.

Ironman

I've seen soup cans that had thicker walls than that drier's shell.

Matt_67

@ChrisJ - I am not blaming the EEV, its just that it likely serves as a positive shutoff during the off cycle to prevent charge migration. If there is something upstream of the filter dryer that is also acting as a shutoff for whatever reason, the trapped refrigerant could not expand and the filter dryer is easily the weakest part of the piping system. I am curious if the system has a receiver and condenser flooding low ambient controls.

RayWohlfarth

@HVACNUT I am not sure. My guys are going there tomorrow. I will post more info
@Matt_67 WE have Carrier confused now. The factory wants our pictures LOL
Perhaps its R410a from Mexico LOL
@Ironman I wonder if it was one for R22
Thanks all

EBEBRATT-Ed

@RayWohlfarth
wondering if something went wacky with the water side of the chiller barrel. Hot water pumped through it by mistake....tied in with the boiler system??

Hot water through the chiller plate & frame would raise the refrig pressure. Maybe the dryer was the weak point

RayWohlfarth

@EBEBRATT-Ed Didn't think about that. Will see of the control system can be researched Thanks

clammy

Ray this was a air cooled system w a remote condenser ? Wasn’t there a hi presssure manual safety or fuseable safety piped on the condenser coil ,and was this a pump down system .just wondering where the head and suction pressures recorded ,I always like having something written on the unit to give whoever ends up there has some ideas on a base line normal operation . Maybe just a China drier quite shameful on carriers part especially since those Stiller’s are no cheap was this for comfort cooling or process peace and good luck clammy

EBEBRATT-Ed

Looks like it might be a Carrier Aquasnap

RayWohlfarth

@clammy Yes there is a high pressure switch and a useable safety Neither tripped or failed. I am adding a separate pressure switch just in case LOL
@EBEBRATT-Ed Yes it is.
Carrier suggested we replace the EEX valve as well
Will let you know how how it goes

mikeg2015

Wonder if the EEV could have failed and closed, system pumps down initially that maybe it opens then slams shut again causing like a water hammer effect.

Ironman

Just saw this posted on HVAC Laughs:

RayWohlfarth

@mikeg2015 I am hoping it was just the filter drier. We installed a separate pressure control just after the filter drier and before the EEX valve
@Ironman wow thats scary

relaxdude624

Hi all just jumping in here because today on a Florida Heat pump I had the same issue. Just seeing if you all had a cause with this? We had a leak on the unit and we fixed that. Pulled a vacuum, put the charge back in the unit by weight which was 72 ounces and turned it back on and during it trying to heat up the water on the system it and then BOOM. We wondered the same thing as far as no high pressure switch to kick out and we will be changing that as well. Any help as to why is greatly appreciated

ChrisJ

relaxdude624 said:

Hi all just jumping in here because today on a Florida Heat pump I had the same issue. Just seeing if you all had a cause with this? We had a leak on the unit and we fixed that. Pulled a vacuum, put the charge back in the unit by weight which was 72 ounces and turned it back on and during it trying to heat up the water on the system it and then BOOM. We wondered the same thing as far as no high pressure switch to kick out and we will be changing that as well. Any help as to why is greatly appreciated

I'm assuming you didn't change the drier?

Or was this a brand new drier?

ratio

Interesting that this popped back up. While I've got no trouble attributing Ray's failure to a quality-control issue, I recently found out that microchannel condensers need a bleed TXV. With microchannel, there's hardly any volume in the condenser, 80-90% of the charge is in the lineset and evaporator. If that TXV decides to slam shut for any reason, there's only seconds to respond before you're basically doing a hydro test on the system.

I actually watched refrigerant squirt out from around the filter dryer shell.

ChrisJ

ratio said:

Interesting that this popped back up. While I've got no trouble attributing Ray's failure to a quality-control issue, I recently found out that microchannel condensers need a bleed TXV. With microchannel, there's hardly any volume in the condenser, 80-90% of the charge is in the lineset and evaporator. If that TXV decides to slam shut for any reason, there's only seconds to respond before you're basically doing a hydro test on the system.

I actually watched refrigerant squirt out from around the filter dryer shell.

Shouldn't such systems have a receiver?

mattmia2

Are those supposed to be welded or are they just spun together like a tin can?

JUGHNE

So if microchannel condensers are shipped with full charge plus enough for 15' of line set:

Once installed and operated, with no added gas, will the charge not fit back in the condenser coil?

clammy

As I haven’t really been involuted in the chilled water process cooling in a while nor work on any as of recent ,was wondering if a liquid line solenoid was present or is carrier putting all eggs in one basket and jumped on bleary using eev instead .
I personally like semi hermetic compressors in lieu of hermetic on chilled water systems being u can have a unloaded ,oil pressure controls and in some cases a oil separator to over come long distances or extreme distances of condenser coils and still ensure oil return . In the past we always installed secondary hi low pressure controls aside from what was included in the package chiller . I ve never been a fan of flat plates for this application and always likes using tube and shells much easier on condenser and evaporator barrel flushing plus much better and less pump hp eaten up . As the flat plate chillers and hermetic can out the few I worked w and myself saw them againa s a10 year throw away being we had older carrier and Westinghouse chillers w semis last decades they where far more forgiving . How old was it ray?
Peace and good luck clammy
I wonder what carrier will say I would image they ll say this is a first . I would think it was either from hi pressure or vibration over time or possibly the cheaping or a filter drier material and thinner walls plus are there really any driers rated for over 600 psi as for 410 .?

RayWohlfarth

@clammy The unit does have micro channel coils and it was only about five years old when this happened. The part that angered me was that neither Carrier nor the wholesaler offered any financial assistance but wanted the filter drier sent back.

clammy

Ay ha micro channel garbage , carrier packaged chillers at least one s from the last 10 years or so are garbage . I would personally think that any chilled water system using a micro channel even though not included or as a opt should be used real upside of the micro channels and flat plates are less refrigerant charge and w a smaller shorter refregerant circuit oil return should not be a issue still non the less cheapened by design ,I doubt this has any pump down unless using the eev as a positive shut off value durning off cycle . Seems anything to make a product crappier . I wonder does anion make chillers if so I would image they would be a huge step up from carrier .
Gone are the days of 4 pipe system s for indoor conditioning systems all to save a buck w manual cross over . Process cooling is a different beast w different range of temps and loads depending on what running . I mostly worked on plastic blow injection chillers most where made on job site in the late 50 but a small time moved on so did just about all the companies either out Jersey to the south or across the sea then bankrupted . I really wonder who thought and mind frame it was that made the jump to micro channel garbage ,any coil warranty ?
I would image a drier replacement and pressure and vacuumed her until she blows again or the compressor leaves the country without papers. How old was she and I would image it’s a couple of months for a new one ,wondering what’s the life span on throw away package flat plate chiller these days anyway 5 to 7 years and bye bye birdie .
Sad state of affairs on the AMERICAN manufacturing of equipment guess it will keep scrap yards and land fills busy.
Peace and Good luck clammy

RayWohlfarth

@clammy I believe this was made in Mexico