baseboard heater water spitting not fixed after three plumbers

Jamie Hall

If I really am seeing what I think I'm seeing on the near boiler piping... that is, a side outlet Utica boiler, 90 degree turn straight up to the building steam mains, with a T taking what I assume is the equalizer over to the wet return part way up...

There is no way that you are going to get rid of the vents spitting. This isn't a venting problem, this is a really bad near boiler piping problem with very wet steam...

I hope I'm wrong.

ethicalpaul

My eyes say you're not wrong @Jamie Hall. That's not good

Fred

@ShannonLee , are both vents on the same Main? If so, one Big Mouth may be enough. If they are each on a separate main, I would take the long nipple off of the elbow, on the right vent and either use a shorter nipple and coupler or attach the Big Mouth right into the elbow.

JUGHNE

MBG is that there is one steam main that splits and there are 2 dry returns, (copper drops).

Could we see where the vents are connected now?
Also, your pictures are too close....we need to see floor to ceiling piping if possible.

Also the B&J big mouth vents have no float to stop water if present....perhaps Gorton #2 would be a better choice with your wet steam and water issue.

ShannonLee

@JUGHNE
@Fred
Is there any way to identify the location where the hot water valves are located is actually main pipe? Or it can be something else, like return ? I assume those are main...Otherwise, why they would install those steam valves? I asked the plumber came last week. he told me I have one pipe system.
I will take more pictures tonight so you can see floor to ceiling piping.
I only have 6 inches to the ceiling. Is that enough speca to install Gorton#2?

JUGHNE said:

MBG is that there is one steam main that splits and there are 2 dry returns, (copper drops).

Could we see where the vents are connected now?
Also, your pictures are too close....we need to see floor to ceiling piping if possible.

Also the B&J big mouth vents have no float to stop water if present....perhaps Gorton #2 would be a better choice with your wet steam and water issue.

ShannonLee

@Jamie Hall
@ethicalpaul
Wet steam
So I have four baseboard heaters and three radiators in total. There are two radiators and two baseboard heater on the 2 second floors which spread in four bedrooms. Two problematic baseboard heaters are the only rooms facing back yard. The rest of 2 baseboard heaters and one radiators are on the first floor which work fine without any water issue. If it the system is so wet as you mentioned, does this make sense to you only the two baseboard heaters are spitting while the rest are OK? is there any way to fix it?

ethicalpaul said:

My eyes say you're not wrong @Jamie Hall. That's not good

ethicalpaul

My feeling is that it is very hard to predict how and where water that gets thrown into the main will go. Sometimes it may not cause any problems. I could imagine a case where only some radiators had problems, certainly.

In my situation (see this thread: https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/169320/see-wet-steam-in-the-wild ), even though my boiler was throwing huge amounts of water, I never experienced spitting at my radiators.

It is very fixable, but it will require re-piping at the boiler. My boiler piping wasn't as bad as yours in my judgment and I repiped it in a minimal way to make it better. I'll be repiping it more when I install my new boiler.

With good main venting and everything else really good (like water level, good water chemistry, etc), you might be able to make things nice without any re-piping. Steam is very forgiving.

Fred

@ShannonLee , If the vents are on the Main(s) they should be after the last radiator. on a one pipe system, while the main piping may continue after the last radiator run-out, we tend to consider that piping a "Dry Return". To be most effective,The vents can be located anywhere along that main/dry return so long as it is after the last radiator run-out. If it is anywhere before the last radiator Run-out, the vent will close before the air is evacuated from the piping after it. The goal is to get air out of all the main piping up to and just past the last radiator run-out. There is no real need to evacuate air beyond that point.

By having two vents at different locations, I assume you may have two Mains but it could still be a single main and the vents were placed where it was convenient. A single pipe system can have any number of mains. It just does not have a separate set of dry return pipes, like a two pipe system would have.

ShannonLee

@JUGHNE
@Fred
Pictures
I took some pictures from the floor to the ceiling. As you can see the biggest pipe is in the middle and is connected to the valve on the right which is located on the others side of the wall. The plumber installed this with hot water valve? Is this the main valve I should replace? Or the other one on the left?

> @JUGHNE said:
> MBG is that there is one steam main that splits and there are 2 dry returns, (copper drops).
>
> Could we see where the vents are connected now?
> Also, your pictures are too close....we need to see floor to ceiling piping if possible.
>
> Also the B&J big mouth vents have no float to stop water if present....perhaps Gorton #2 would be a better choice with your wet steam and water issue.

Jamie Hall

Look. I'm sorry to have to say this, but your plumber has done you no fabvours -- and you are working in the dark.

Please -- do two things. First, order the book "We Got Steam Heat" from the store on this site. That will help you -- though probably not the plumber -- to understand how steam heat works. Second, please tell us where you are located, so we can see if we can recommend a person who does understand steam heat to you, whom you could hire to come an straighten this system out.

ShannonLee

@Fred
I went to two local supply stores today. None of them have B&J Big mouth. So I ended up buying two of Gorton #1. The store manager also helps to pair with two reducers so I can install two Gorton#1 at the current location in the basement.
But I was only able to install one Gorton#1 at the left side. It is because there is limited height space on the right main valve side so I have no choices but to put a Varivalve there.
It seems to work better than before.I did not see any water coming out of Hoffman 1A on the second floor baseboard heaters and the room is heating up much faster!
The problem now is that at the end of cycle when the desired temperature is reached, the are brown colored water spitting out of Gorton#1. Varivalve on the right is fine. Is it normal?
The other thing is I can no longer cover/closed the baseboard heater at the end due to the size of Hoffman #1. What is your suggestion?

> @Fred said:
> @ShannonLee , If the vents are on the Main(s) they should be after the last radiator. on a one pipe system, while the main piping may continue after the last radiator run-out, we tend to consider that piping a "Dry Return". To be most effective,The vents can be located anywhere along that main/dry return so long as it is after the last radiator run-out. If it is anywhere before the last radiator Run-out, the vent will close before the air is evacuated from the piping after it. The goal is to get air out of all the main piping up to and just past the last radiator run-out. There is no real need to evacuate air beyond that point.
>
> By having two vents at different locations, I assume you may have two Mains but it could still be a single main and the vents were placed where it was convenient. A single pipe system can have any number of mains. It just does not have a separate set of dry return pipes, like a two pipe system would have.

Fred

It is not normal for any steam vent to spit or leak water.. I tend to agree with @Jamie Hall , it's time to find a contractor that knows steam and can make the needed corrections.

ShannonLee

@ Jamie Hall
Do you know anyone in Montclair, NJ?

> @Jamie Hall said:
> Look. I'm sorry to have to say this, but your plumber has done you no fabvours -- and you are working in the dark.
>
> Please -- do two things. First, order the book "We Got Steam Heat" from the store on this site. That will help you -- though probably not the plumber -- to understand how steam heat works. Second, please tell us where you are located, so we can see if we can recommend a person who does understand steam heat to you, whom you could hire to come an straighten this system out.

Jamie Hall

ShannonLee said:

@ Jamie Hall

Do you know anyone in Montclair, NJ?



> @Jamie Hall said:

> Look. I'm sorry to have to say this, but your plumber has done you no fabvours -- and you are working in the dark.

>

> Please -- do two things. First, order the book "We Got SteamHeat" from the store on this site. That will help you -- though probably not the plumber -- to understand how steam heat works. Second, please tell us where you are located, so we can see if we can recommend a person who does understand steam heat to you, whom you could hire to come an straighten this system out.

Yes, @ShannonLee -- not in Montclair, but service the area -- and you are in luck. Get in touch with @EzzyT or @Dave0176 .
They're among the best in the business, are reasonable, and completely reliable. To send either a personal e-mail, just click on the highlighted name and you will be able to send them a personal message.

Erin Holohan Haskell

Here's @Dave0176's page on Find a Contractor: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

ethicalpaul

ethicalpaul said:

Well hello neighbor 😃



I’ve used @Dave0176, he’s awesome. @EzzyT is also great and works northern jersey

From page 1 ^^^

I have no doubt that your near-boiler piping is pushing all that water directly into your steam main. Call one of these pros