Copperlock?

jumper

I would suppose that cutting and threading steel is more expensive than cutting and sweating copper even if copper fittings are more costly? Some builders thought steel was better because it cost more.

jumper

Fred said:

Lots of lead in that old brass. Not good, especially for children.

Maybe depends on the water. Lots of intelligent people drank from pipes with good old leaded solder when they were young.

Fred

@jumper , they mighta, coulda been geniuses had they not drank that cool aid.

ChrisJ

Fred said:

@Gordy and @ChrisJ , It was tar. I don't do asphalt. It's to gritty.

Either way, it was very similar to this.

Only, with tar.

https://youtu.be/7kyBdYyRkxE

pecmsg

jumper said:

Fred said:

Lots of lead in that old brass. Not good, especially for children.

Maybe depends on the water. Lots of intelligent people drank from pipes with good old leaded solder when they were young.

along with eating lead paint chips!

Sitting in the Dr's waiting room while there parents smoked

Rode bicycles without helmits

EBEBRATT-Ed

Here in Ma there's tons of old houses piped in brass. I am sure a lot of this is still in use. Mostly two families built in the early 1900s in Springfield were all brass.

Never say too much galvanized. Copper wasn't out yet. What else were they going to use

Interested to see what @Charlie from wmass says about this

ChrisJ

pecmsg said:

jumper said:

Fred said:

Lots of lead in that old brass. Not good, especially for children.

Maybe depends on the water. Lots of intelligent people drank from pipes with good old leaded solder when they were young.

along with eating lead paint chips!

Sitting in the Dr's waiting room while there parents smoked

Rode bicycles without helmits

I rode a bike without a helmet when I was 8, ended up with 21 stiches in my head. Guess who would've had a much easier time if he had a helmet on?

Charlie from wmass

I have 3/8" brass throughout my house 1919 construction in Springfield Ma. Lead test of water shows levels well below any level of concern.

Solid_Fuel_Man

@ChrisJ 21 stitches, they could have glued it. But chose the tried and true stitching.

SlamDunk

Charlie from wmass

Btw copper lock won't pass most code requirements. I would propress a steam boiler before copper lock.a cold water pipe. Note that I will never propress a steam boiler

Gordy

SlamDunk said:

Crazy glue. Yes it works.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Charlie from wmass

Don't think MA would ever approve that stuff

SlamDunk

crazy glue

Gordy said:

SlamDunk said:

Crazy glue. Yes it works.

It is krazy glue without toxicity or brittleness.

Zipper13

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@Charlie from wmass

Don't think MA would ever approve that stuff

My friend's bakery (who told me about this wonder-product) was just piped entirely with it. It's on the North Shore. He swore it was all to code - it passed inspection at least!

Charlie from wmass

They lied

Intplm.

Code passed? That is doubtful since this is NOT a approved method. However, one must look VERY closely to be able to tell this was done.

Charlie from wmass

Mass code

Intplm.

Hey @Charlie from wmass Nice post !!

Zipper13

Sounds like my cheapskate friend found a cut rate plumber who doesn't know how to solder and must have some dirt on the plumbing inspector then!

Charlie from wmass

@Zipper13 the inspector may not have noticed that the glue was used. The plumber could loose his license for this. If it comes to light the whole building will need repiped.

Intplm.

It's no that he's got dirt on anyone. It's just that copperlock is not a approved method for joining copper pipe. It is also hard to tell that the copper joints and pipes have been joined by copperlock unless you are looking closely and directly at a joint..
Homeowners and owners do not have to deal with liability issues among a multitude of other things that contractors have to deal with. Code compliance being just one of them.

Charlie from wmass

This was allegedly used by a licensed plumber and the job was inspected. Job was also commercial. Massachusetts does not allow DIY plumbing even if you tried to apply for a permit. Licensed plumbers only to even apply for a permit.

Zipper13

Jeez this is serious business! I hope my friend misspoke and perhaps it was only used on on sink drains and not potable/pressure lines?! or is even that a violation?

I was just joking that he would have needed some dirt on the inspector to pass in the first place - not that he has something now that it went unnoticed.

ChrisJ

Keep in mind,
When you solder copper, you literally create a new alloy (I think?) on the surface of the pipe or wire. It's not just glue sticking on the surface.

That's why you can't clean the silver off a pipe after you unsolder it. The solder mixed with a tiny bit of copper on the surface of the pipe.

Solvent welding PVC is literally melting the pvc together.

Glue on copper is just sticking to the surface of it.

Intplm. said:

It's no that he's got dirt on anyone. It's just that copperlock is not a approved method for joining copper pipe. It is also hard to tell that the copper joints and pipes have been joined by copperlock unless you are looking closely and directly at a joint..
Homeowners and owners do not have to deal with liability issues among a multitude of other things that contractors have to deal with. Code compliance being just one of them.

Since when do homeowners and owners not have to deal with code compliance?

Guess who's problem it ultimately is when a pipe let's go and floods the place?

Homeowners and owners are required to meet code when they do their own work

Charlie from wmass

Not an alloy
Copper lock is Not allowed on drainage either.

SlamDunk

Charlie from wmass said:

Mass code

Did I read that code wrong? Pro press not allowed?

Charlie from wmass

There is a provision for mechanical joints.

Fred

@ChrisJ said: "Homeowners and owners are required to meet code when they do their own work"

It's true. When our codes changed to require lead free solder and fittings, I had to prove to the inspector that I used lead free materials before he would pass my replumb of a home I was restoring. I even think he was more critical of me because I was not a licensed plumber. Didn't matter, I happened to have all my plumbing materials there , solder, flux, etc. and proved to him it was all lead free and passed inspection.

Of course, that assumes one pulls permits and get inspections. Many Homeowners and licensed plumbers don't, at least not for every job.

ChrisJ

Charlie from wmass said:

Not an alloy

Copper lock is Not allowed on drainage either.

"Many various fluxes contain metal halides which are metals combined with halogens. Halogens are a group in the periodic table consisting of five chemically related elements: fluorine (F), chlorine (Cl), bromine (Br), iodine (I), and astatine (At). These halides are the activators. Because flux has a low melting point it will liquefy before solder solidifies. Metal halides often promote corrosion which will help aid in the dissolution of the oxide allowing the contaminate to flow away from the joint. Then the solder will flow into the joint forming a strong bond that actually fuses with the metals involved. Which is why metals like lead and tin are used to solder metals like copper because they form a bond with the metal that creates a thin layer of alloy metals.

I'm pretty sure there's a thin "new metal" on the surface of the metal that was soldered, so to speak.

Charlie from wmass

I read that to mean the layer is itself an alloy not that one is created, but I could be mistaken.

ChrisJ

Charlie from wmass said:

I read that to mean the layer is itself an alloy not that one is created, but I could be mistaken.

"The bond between solder and base metal is more than adhesion or mechanical attachment, although these do contribute to bond strength. Rather,
the essential feature of a soldered joint is that a metallurgical bond is produced at the filler-metal/base-metal interface. The solder reacts with a
small amount of the base metal and wets the metal by forming intermetallic compounds. Upon solidification, the joint is held together by the same
attraction between adjacent atoms that holds a piece of solid metal together. The ease of wetting (discussed later) is related to the ease with
which this solvent action occurs. The presence of the base-metal/fillermetal reaction is one factor in the wetting action of the solder. Other factors include surface cleanliness and solder surface tension (that is, capillary flow)."


"An intermetallic (also called an intermetallic compound, intermetallic alloy, ordered intermetallic alloy, and a long-range-ordered alloy) is a type of metallic alloy that forms a solid-state compound exhibiting defined stoichiometry and ordered crystal structure."

Intplm.

ChrisJ said:

Keep in mind,
When you solder copper, you literally create a new alloy (I think?) on the surface of the pipe or wire. It's not just glue sticking on the surface.

That's why you can't clean the silver off a pipe after you unsolder it. The solder mixed with a tiny bit of copper on the surface of the pipe.

Solvent welding PVC is literally melting the pvc together.

Glue on copper is just sticking to the surface of it.

Intplm. said:

It's no that he's got dirt on anyone. It's just that copperlock is not a approved method for joining copper pipe. It is also hard to tell that the copper joints and pipes have been joined by copperlock unless you are looking closely and directly at a joint..
Homeowners and owners do not have to deal with liability issues among a multitude of other things that contractors have to deal with. Code compliance being just one of them.

Since when do homeowners and owners not have to deal with code compliance?

Guess who's problem it ultimately is when a pipe let's go and floods the place?

Homeowners and owners are required to meet code when they do their own work

I am speaking to the fact that they don't have the education to be code compliant. They don't know any better . There supposed to, but hey look! this copperlock conversation is taking place. So, do they know? Both the homeowner and so called plumber? Not according to this conversation. I'm also speaking to the OP directly. Copperlock would not have been used if the owner and plumber were code compliant.
Hope that my explanation clears my earlier comment.

jumper

I think that years ago I used something called copperbrite or copperblack. Tight spot where you'd be reluctant with flame. Never heard that it failed.

Charlie from wmass

Before propress I never had a spot that could not be soldered. Lol