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Copperlock?

Zipper13Zipper13 Posts: 84Member
A buddy of mine was very excited to tell me about copperlock.His plumber just piped his new commercial bakery kitchen entirely with the stuff. He tells me it will change my life as a homeowner since I'll be able to swap out rubbish water valves or add my proposed whole house filter without having to sweat pipe totally dry to get a good bond.

Does this stuff hold up or is is lazy?
I have a small run of cooper pipe to a steam rad (the rest is black) If any of those joints go, think that stuff will stand up to the heat if used in a repair?
New owner of a 1920s home with steam heat north of Boston.
Just trying to learn what I can do myself and what I just shouldn't touch
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Comments

  • FredFred Posts: 7,815Member
    It is said to crack where there is movement/expansion/contraction. I don't think I'd try it on a steam pipe. For me, I don't think I'd take the chance on any copper supply piping. Waste pipe, maybe.
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    I've used it just to see all the hubbub. It's as much prep work as soldering. With out the heat. In perfect lab conditions it will probably pass its ratings.

    I wouldn't trust it. Your buddies plumber has balls. My god a whole house piped in copper with polymer holding it all together. I wouldn't run to the mail box with out shutting off the main..............

    Copper locks easy out in any failure is improper procedure in use. Pretty hard to prove that it was anything else.

  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,634Member
    Never herd of it gotta look it up. What will they try next?

    Is this stuff code approved?
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,634Member
    Looked it up.

    Super Glue for copper tubing.

    They even said you can use it on refrigeration lines!
    (not all refrigerants have been tested)

    They caution about using it on soft copper that may not be perfectly round.

    Think I will stick to my trusty torch and Propress when forced into it

  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    Thing is, you can’t cut, and prep and assemble a bunch of piping, and glue like you can with solder.

    You can cut, and prep a run then take it all apart. The whole run is glue, and assemble as you go. You have to give the pieces a half twist once seated. I found the glue would bite before getting pieces properly aligned.

    It works, but I wouldn’t trust it for the long haul. I don’t think a professional could sleep at night with a bunch of jobs hanging over him using nothing but copper lock.
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Posts: 10,293Member
    Any body else notice that in the instructions for the stuff the makers recommend cleaning the fitting and the pipe? Seems to me -- about the worst plumber around -- that that's the hardest part of the job anyway...
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • SuperTechSuperTech Posts: 938Member
    I thought sharkbite was what the guys who can't solder or afford a Propress were using. I haven't heard of this stuff, I can't believe some type of glue can be used on refrigeration.
  • clammyclammy Posts: 2,211Member
    It s been around awhile , I knew a nearly old timer who would carry it way before pro press . He only used when he couldn’t t get main to shut off 100 % n could not sweat a joint If I remember to remove just burn it w a torch and yank it off . Guess it had it place in time Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,634Member
    Thread a pipe & put a fitting on it may leak but won't blow off
    Weld or braze or solder even if someone does a crappy job, may leak probably won't come apart.

    pro press won't come apart unless you forget to crimp it.

    This stuff?? Guess it's like ABS or PVC solvent weld
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Posts: 517Member
    I actually used this stuff on a compressed air line using 100psi.

    One joint failed to hold as I pressurized it and blew apart just as the VP of operations was walking beneath it. It was loud and dust was everywhere.

    We created and marketed a medical polymer used in place of sutures, getting physicians to try glue over stitches wasn't easy, so he wasn't mad at me for trying it out.

    I wouldn't use it as a permanent repair.
  • jumperjumper Posts: 1,302Member
    Years ago I tried a similar product.

    You'd think that in this modern age of chemistry there'd be goop that could do anything?
  • Zipper13Zipper13 Posts: 84Member
    I'm loving the commentary on this. All about in line with what I expected. My buddy is hard worker and always seems to be able to squeeze a lot out of a dollar but I wonder if he'll regret this as shortcut later on. He says it's to code but sounds like a risk to me. Sounds like the consensus is that is will hold....but for who knows how long.
    New owner of a 1920s home with steam heat north of Boston.
    Just trying to learn what I can do myself and what I just shouldn't touch
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,629Member

    Thread a pipe & put a fitting on it may leak but won't blow off
    Weld or braze or solder even if someone does a crappy job, may leak probably won't come apart.

    pro press won't come apart unless you forget to crimp it.

    This stuff?? Guess it's like ABS or PVC solvent weld

    Yeah, except for solvent weld is just that, you're literally melting the plastic together.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Posts: 517Member
    edited March 12
    Zipper13 said:

    I'm loving the commentary on this. All about in line with what I expected. My buddy is hard worker and always seems to be able to squeeze a lot out of a dollar but I wonder if he'll regret this as shortcut later on. He says it's to code but sounds like a risk to me. Sounds like the consensus is that is will hold....but for who knows how long.

    I ran my project by our head polymer chemist and he explained the chemistry, saying it does work and it is old technology.

    Now that I think back, I need to back peddle a bit, the joint that failed was not assembled perfectly, not fully inserted or square. there is precious little time to assemble before it cures. In fact, it was an 1-1/4” line and impossible to redo any of the 200’. It is probably still in place! I take back my warning. It does work if you put it together correctly.

  • Intplm.Intplm. Posts: 689Member
    Somehow glue for copper tubing assembly just doesn't seem right to me. But if it is? Why isn't it used more widely in the industry? Ut-Uh ! Not gonna even try.
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Posts: 517Member
    It isn't used more widely for that very reason-It doesnt seem right!
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 687Member
    Intplm. said:

    Somehow glue for copper tubing assembly just doesn't seem right to me. But if it is? Why isn't it used more widely in the industry? Ut-Uh ! Not gonna even try.

    They said the same thing about:
    soldered copper (Water supply lines were Brass Threaded pipe at one time)
    PVC
    Unions instead of Flanges
    PEX
    Pro Press

    Anything that can cut back on Labor expenses Will be embraced with open arms!
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,629Member
    > @pecmsg said:
    > Somehow glue for copper tubing assembly just doesn't seem right to me. But if it is? Why isn't it used more widely in the industry? Ut-Uh ! Not gonna even try.
    >
    > They said the same thing about:
    > soldered copper (Water supply lines were Brass Threaded pipe at one time)
    > PVC
    > Unions instead of Flanges
    > PEX
    > Pro Press
    >
    > Anything that can cut back on Labor expenses Will be embraced with open arms!

    I've found no brass threaded pipe in my house.
    When was that in use?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 687Member
    ChrisJ said:

    > @pecmsg said:

    > Somehow glue for copper tubing assembly just doesn't seem right to me. But if it is? Why isn't it used more widely in the industry? Ut-Uh ! Not gonna even try.

    >

    > They said the same thing about:

    > soldered copper (Water supply lines were Brass Threaded pipe at one time)

    > PVC

    > Unions instead of Flanges

    > PEX

    > Pro Press

    >

    > Anything that can cut back on Labor expenses Will be embraced with open arms!



    I've found no brass threaded pipe in my house.

    When was that in use?

    Our old house in Nassau Co. RVC. Everything behind the walls were Brass.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,629Member
    pecmsg said:

    ChrisJ said:

    > @pecmsg said:

    > Somehow glue for copper tubing assembly just doesn't seem right to me. But if it is? Why isn't it used more widely in the industry? Ut-Uh ! Not gonna even try.

    >

    > They said the same thing about:

    > soldered copper (Water supply lines were Brass Threaded pipe at one time)

    > PVC

    > Unions instead of Flanges

    > PEX

    > Pro Press

    >

    > Anything that can cut back on Labor expenses Will be embraced with open arms!



    I've found no brass threaded pipe in my house.

    When was that in use?

    Our old house in Nassau Co. RVC. Everything behind the walls were Brass.
    That's a where, not a when. :)

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 687Member
    ChrisJ said:

    pecmsg said:

    ChrisJ said:

    > @pecmsg said:

    > Somehow glue for copper tubing assembly just doesn't seem right to me. But if it is? Why isn't it used more widely in the industry? Ut-Uh ! Not gonna even try.

    >

    > They said the same thing about:

    > soldered copper (Water supply lines were Brass Threaded pipe at one time)

    > PVC

    > Unions instead of Flanges

    > PEX

    > Pro Press

    >

    > Anything that can cut back on Labor expenses Will be embraced with open arms!



    I've found no brass threaded pipe in my house.

    When was that in use?

    Our old house in Nassau Co. RVC. Everything behind the walls were Brass.
    That's a where, not a when. :)

    That house was built in the 20's
  • Intplm.Intplm. Posts: 689Member
    pecmsg said:

    Intplm. said:

    Somehow glue for copper tubing assembly just doesn't seem right to me. But if it is? Why isn't it used more widely in the industry? Ut-Uh ! Not gonna even try.

    They said the same thing about:
    soldered copper (Water supply lines were Brass Threaded pipe at one time)
    PVC
    Unions instead of Flanges
    PEX
    Pro Press

    Anything that can cut back on Labor expenses Will be embraced with open arms!
    They sure did. But this stuff has been around for quite a while now. I haven't seen the change in the industry that we have seen with all the things that you mention above. So I must ask. Why hasn't it been accepted?
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 687Member
    Intplm. said:

    pecmsg said:

    Intplm. said:

    Somehow glue for copper tubing assembly just doesn't seem right to me. But if it is? Why isn't it used more widely in the industry? Ut-Uh ! Not gonna even try.

    They said the same thing about:
    soldered copper (Water supply lines were Brass Threaded pipe at one time)
    PVC
    Unions instead of Flanges
    PEX
    Pro Press

    Anything that can cut back on Labor expenses Will be embraced with open arms!
    They sure did. But this stuff has been around for quite a while now. I haven't seen the change in the industry that we have seen with all the things that you mention above. So I must ask. Why hasn't it been accepted?
    My best Guess.............................PEX is cheaper then Copper!!!
  • FredFred Posts: 7,815Member
    Very, Very, Very few homes were piped in Brass. Those were more likely custom jobs where people had a level of wealth above the average. When indoor plumbing became the standard, lead pipe was used (even for supply lines), followed by galvanized pipe, followed by copper, followed by PVC.
  • Intplm.Intplm. Posts: 689Member
    @ChrisJ I grew up in a house that was piped with brass. The house was built in the 1940's...? I changed most of it to copper as a trade school kid growing up.
    Come to think of it. I remodeled the only bathroom in the house too.

    I also ended changing the boiler. It was a Sears & Roebuck brand boiler serving a one pipe steam system. (I miss that system to this day) Haven't had a steam heating system since I moved away as a kid.
    I guess you could say that my parents allowed me to use the house as a practice point for my trade that I was learning at the time.

    No copper lock was used or has ever been used by me or anyone that I know.
  • STEAM DOCTORSTEAM DOCTOR Posts: 871Member
    > @ChrisJ said:
    > > @pecmsg said:
    > > Somehow glue for copper tubing assembly just doesn't seem right to me. But if it is? Why isn't it used more widely in the industry? Ut-Uh ! Not gonna even try.
    > >
    > > They said the same thing about:
    > > soldered copper (Water supply lines were Brass Threaded pipe at one time)
    > > PVC
    > > Unions instead of Flanges
    > > PEX
    > > Pro Press
    > >
    > > Anything that can cut back on Labor expenses Will be embraced with open arms!
    >
    > I've found no brass threaded pipe in my house.
    > When was that in use?

    Lots of pre 50's residential houses in Queens NY were piped in brass. Seen a few piped with TP(threadless pipe). TP was essentially brass without threads. Not totally sure if I am correct about the TP.
  • Intplm.Intplm. Posts: 689Member
    Wow! @STEAM DOCTOR I have seen a lot of stuff! But threadless brass pipe? Whoa!
    (learn something new every day)
  • STEAM DOCTORSTEAM DOCTOR Posts: 871Member
    First time I came across TP I had no clue what it was either. Cut into pipe, thinking it was copper. Size looked a little off but what did i know then. Couldn't get any of my copper fittings to fit. Mind you this was late on December 24th and customer had no water. Found a supply place that was open(there is a 24/7/365 place in Brooklyn). Was fortunate that they carried TP adaptors .
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,629Member
    edited March 13
    Fred said:

    Very, Very, Very few homes were piped in Brass. Those were more likely custom jobs where people had a level of wealth above the average. When indoor plumbing became the standard, lead pipe was used (even for supply lines), followed by galvanized pipe, followed by copper, followed by PVC.

    Most of my house was galvanized by the time I got it, but I did find a bunch of what I think was lead pipe laying in a pile under the stairs. No idea how old it was or when it was from. 3/4"-ish. The house had city water added in 1881.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    edited March 13
    I haven’t really found the why brass would be a chosen material, or correlate it to a region/circa.

    Seems not to be out of the ordinary.

    https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Brass_Water_Pipe_Guide.php
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    Remember also those material were not extremely expensive in that time frame. Seems odd to have been used during WW II era with rationing of certain valued materials.
  • SuperTechSuperTech Posts: 938Member
    I've found a few houses in the older sections of the Hudson Valley that were piped in threaded brass. If you encounter any, remember to always use two pipe wrenches on it. It's very brittle and easy to break.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,629Member
    > @SuperTech said:
    > I've found a few houses in the older sections of the Hudson Valley that were piped in threaded brass. If you encounter any, remember to always use two pipe wrenches on it. It's very brittle and easy to break.

    Probably because it's brass... :)
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Posts: 517Member
    edited March 14
    My father the house piped from the foundation to the second floor in 1” bronze and the branches in copper. That pipe will be there forever.
  • clammyclammy Posts: 2,211Member
    I still run into brass water line and I’m mostly in Bergen county nj .More often I see brass over galv most of that has given up the ghost years ago ,one of my buddy has a custermer w that thin wall brass sweat the ho refuses to let him rip it out they prefer that it’s replaced as it leaks one piece at a time he s a saint . I see some places that have everything brass w galv repair and the galv repairs with copper and the some pex .I look at it and shake my head Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
  • FredFred Posts: 7,815Member
    Lots of lead in that old brass. Not good, especially for children.
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    edited March 15
    Fred said:

    Lots of lead in that old brass. Not good, especially for children.

    Neither is tar :D

  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,629Member
    > @Gordy said:
    > Lots of lead in that old brass. Not good, especially for children.
    >
    > Neither is tar :D

    I thought that was full blown asphalt....
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    Either way, I’d rather admit to sucking on a brass brass pipe :D
  • FredFred Posts: 7,815Member
    @Gordy and @ChrisJ , It was tar. I don't do asphalt. It's to gritty. :D
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