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Craftsmanship?

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bnjmn
bnjmn Member Posts: 53
I am working on a house a customer of mine recently purchased. We are going through HVAC system and cleaning up the sloppy installation.

Customer asked me to look over the attic space. The chimney is leaning toward the master suite. I told them to move out ASAP before this thing comes through the roof.

It gets very frustrating seeing such horrible work. But bottom dollar gets the job. Man is it going to be expensive to fix.
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Comments

  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,649
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    Wait, is that thing just a stack of bricks laying on the roof? WTH‽‽‽
  • bnjmn
    bnjmn Member Posts: 53
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    Yep, roof is rated for 60 lb snow load not the weight of a Suburban. It’s natural veneer stone 1 1/2” thick.
  • 1Matthias
    1Matthias Member Posts: 148
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    Holy. I've seen some hacked-together junk, but that takes the cake.
    SuperTechCanucker
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,881
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    I hope that building inspector has great insurance!
    SuperTechCanucker
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,419
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    That has to be some of the worst work I've seen in quite some time. At least it won't cost much to take it down... although taking it down without damaging the roof may be a bit of a trick.

    The roof trusses look basically OK, but the framing for the base of the chimney borders on the criminal -- not to mention the overload on the trusses.

    If that flue pipe is insulated, they would be much better off building a wood chimney enclosure around it -- but, of course, that wouldn't match the equally fake stone siding, would it?
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,000
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    All it takes is for the big bad wolf to huff and puff.....
    SuperTechratioCanucker
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,074
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    Could the vent be offset in the attic and exit on the back side of the ridge. Close to center would require less above the roofline.
    And maybe plain pipe metal showing or minimal boxing in.
    SuperTech
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,183
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    My first thought was a plain stainless steel pipe would be the simplest solution.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,887
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    I think someone makes prefabbed boxes for use with this type of chimney, some of which duplicate the look of stone. Check with your suppliers.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • bnjmn
    bnjmn Member Posts: 53
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    I'm pretty sure all the stone and framing of this chimney is going to be removed. Then the roof framing below this is going to have to be engineered and then redone to carry this kind of load. This fireplace insert is located on the second floor of the home and also is covered with stone, which my guess is not supported. So this thing may have to be redone all the way to the basement floor/footings.

    I'm not really looking for any ways to redo this it at the moment. To make it right it all has to be torn out. I just wanted to share how not to build a chimney in a million dollar home.
    SuperTech
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,074
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    Does the kitchen look nice?
    Intplm.SuperTechCanucker
  • bnjmn
    bnjmn Member Posts: 53
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    In any home no matter the price, really.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,993
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    pecmsg said:

    I hope that building inspector has great insurance!

    Yes !!!! Whatever happened to those building inspectors ???
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,767
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    > @Steamhead said:
    > I think someone makes prefabbed boxes for use with this type of chimney, some of which duplicate the look of stone. Check with your suppliers.


    I had almost bought one for my b vent.
    It's also what my first assumption was when I saw the picture.

    It seems a lot more likely that's a fake box looks like stone than someone actually putting the effort into building a real one. Especially considering the quality of the work in the attic.

    @bnjmn Are you 100% sure that's actually stone and not a hollow box?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    rick in Alaska
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,183
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    > @Intplm. said:
    > I hope that building inspector has great insurance!
    >
    > Yes !!!! Whatever happened to those building inspectors ???

    If I had five dollars for everytime I explained an unsafe situation or pointed out errors in installation to a new homeowner and heard the reply "The inspector looked at everything and said it's fine " inspectors are like anyone else, some are good and really care about doing the job to the best of their ability and some don't care and are just collecting a paycheck. Either way it makes sense to get things like plumbing, heating and cooling and electrical checked out by a qualified professional.
    Intplm.
  • bnjmn
    bnjmn Member Posts: 53
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    This contraption is a box framed with 2x4's and OSB then covered with a stone veneer. Even though the stone is only 1 1/2" thick its still heavy. Not sure the exact weight per square foot.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,767
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    > @bnjmn said:
    > This contraption is a box framed with 2x4's and OSB then covered with a stone veneer. Even though the stone is only 1 1/2" thick its still heavy. Not sure the exact weight per square foot.

    And all they had to do was buy a chimney surround.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,607
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    Never mind the chimney I would be concerned for the rest of the construction. The whole thing may come down.

    I would call:
    fire dept
    building inspector
    insurance company

    And anyone else I could think of
  • bnjmn
    bnjmn Member Posts: 53
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    Inspector, builder, insurance company, realtor, lawyer, therapist
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited February 2019
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    Those are gable end trusses that are failing. Wrong truss type for the application. Someone hand built them, and had no clue how a truss works displacing loading in its components. Even a standard gable end truss has vertical members at closer centers than those.

    That’s why the chimney is leaning. I think the chimney is framed in with a stone veneer which was the nail in the coffin.........
    CLamb
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,572
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    They are over frame trusses. The lack of fasteners at the foot and web stiffeners is a concern as well.
    That veneer is around 25-30 lbs per sq foot. Easily 1 1/2 ton up there.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    CLamb
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,993
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    SuperTech said:

    > @Intplm. said:

    > I hope that building inspector has great insurance!

    >

    > Yes !!!! Whatever happened to those building inspectors ???



    If I had five dollars for everytime I explained an unsafe situation or pointed out errors in installation to a new homeowner and heard the reply "The inspector looked at everything and said it's fine " inspectors are like anyone else, some are good and really care about doing the job to the best of their ability and some don't care and are just collecting a paycheck. Either way it makes sense to get things like plumbing, heating and cooling and electrical checked out by a qualified professional.

    @SuperTech . You sure have struck a nerve. Some inspectors are pretty good. Others??

    You are so right. It makes all the sense in the world to have things checked out by qualified professionals.

    I am wondering what the building inspector will say about the above issue......Will he say? "Oh, that was probably done after it was inspected."

    It's a shame this type of poor workmanship takes place.
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,183
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    It really is a sad reflection on the trade as a whole. At first I would get upset about how new home owners put their faith in the inspectors and the previous owner only to later find unsafe or equipment in poor condition. Now I have seen it so much it's almost to be expected in some areas.

    Moral of the story is to educate yourself so you don't have to rely on anyone else, or find high quality technicians that you can trust.
    Intplm.Canucker
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,881
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    SuperTech said:

    It really is a sad reflection on the trade as a whole. At first I would get upset about how new home owners put their faith in the inspectors and the previous owner only to later find unsafe or equipment in poor condition. Now I have seen it so much it's almost to be expected in some areas.



    Moral of the story is to educate yourself so you don't have to rely on anyone else, or find high quality technicians that you can trust.

    New homeowners put there faith in Home Warranty Companies also!
    SuperTech
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,183
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    Home warranty companies and the guys that do their "repairs" is a whole huge problem in itself.

    If you want bottom of the barrel piss poor work done on your home then by all means consider a home warranty!
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,993
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    Yeah.......Agreed. Most home warranty companies do not "Vet" the people that do the work.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,993
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    pecmsg said:

    Intplm. said:

    Yeah.......Agreed. Most home warranty companies do not "Vet" the people that do the work.

    They Vet them...……….You'll work under OUR terms, Low Pay, Late Pay, No Pay, Burry you in Paperwork??????????????
    Your Hired!
    Could not have said it better myself.
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
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    If it were my home I'd be up there right now stripping stone, snow or no snow. Ladder to the top of that nearby gable and go to work. Re-sheet the effected area, install a metal cone flashing, and throw some temporary shingles down. 2 men, 1 day. Clean it up in the spring.
    Steve Minnich
    Canucker
  • Leonard
    Leonard Member Posts: 903
    edited February 2019
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    WOW, can you say structurally UNSOUND.
    Weight is bad enough, but crowbar effect when wind blows .......

    Maybe they put a metal chimney up for the inspector, then added the rest after he left.

    I see similar overloading when commercial tenants add air handling equipment to flat roofs. Guy asks the roof is strong right? Then drops a pair of 600 # make up air units on roof. Luckily it wasn't winter yet, so it just used up part of rafter's snow load capacity ( 45#/SF here).

    If you get an insurance agent in there they might just cancel your policy, building inspector might tell you move out and fix it in within 30 days. With garbage work like that I'ld think about getting a structural engineer with PE stamp to document the problem and look at what else is wrong with the place. You'll need his independent opinion if you take builder to court, been thru that.
  • Kybeans403
    Kybeans403 Member Posts: 56
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    That's sadly something i see daily in CT/Westchester area with all the remodels, and new builds going on.

    Along the same lines as above, please see these. My best friend moved to The greater Houston, TX area for a major job opportunity. Purchased a freshly built, 2,800 sqft home. This is how it's heated and cooled. I just got back from a quick weekend visit to try and remedy airflow issues in master suite.

    Large home building company along the lines of Toll Bros, built it, and subcontracted mechanicals.




    SeanBeans
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,183
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    Those pictures look very similar to the quality of work that I see far too often in the Toll Brothers neighbourhoods in my area, they really are the worst.

    I can't say I have ever seen anything that awful while working in Westchester or Fairfield counties.
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,881
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    Take a poor too extremely poor duct lay out and insure it doesn't work by Zoning It!
    SuperTech
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    Could be the original chase had just siding, and someone down the road thought stone veneer would look nice......
  • Sal Santamaura
    Sal Santamaura Member Posts: 529
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    ...Along the same lines as above, please see these...

    That looks a cut above what I've seen around here. At least they used some kind of black strapping to hold the flex ducts up, rather than just letting them drape over each other and wood/metal obstructions, crimping and cutting off airflow. "Fine" craftsmanship indeed. :)
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,767
    edited February 2019
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    That's sadly something i see daily in CT/Westchester area with all the remodels, and new builds going on.

    Along the same lines as above, please see these. My best friend moved to The greater Houston, TX area for a major job opportunity. Purchased a freshly built, 2,800 sqft home. This is how it's heated and cooled. I just got back from a quick weekend visit to try and remedy airflow issues in master suite.

    Large home building company along the lines of Toll Bros, built it, and subcontracted mechanicals.









    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    KC_JonesCanuckerSuperTech
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,741
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    ...Along the same lines as above, please see these...

    That looks a cut above what I've seen around here. At least they used some kind of black strapping to hold the flex ducts up, rather than just letting them drape over each other and wood/metal obstructions, crimping and cutting off airflow. "Fine" craftsmanship indeed. :)
    Sad, very sad. And people can't figure out why I am scared to death to hire a contractor.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    CLambZipper13pecmsgSuperTech
  • Leonard
    Leonard Member Posts: 903
    edited February 2019
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    "NIce" hanging wiring too.

    Electrical code says at least the 120 V stuff has to be properly supported, might apply to low voltage too.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,767
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    KC_Jones said:

    ...Along the same lines as above, please see these...

    That looks a cut above what I've seen around here. At least they used some kind of black strapping to hold the flex ducts up, rather than just letting them drape over each other and wood/metal obstructions, crimping and cutting off airflow. "Fine" craftsmanship indeed. :)
    Sad, very sad. And people can't figure out why I am scared to death to hire a contractor.
    According to what many claim, if you get 5 quotes and go with the highest bid you're apparently safe.


    I don't believe that my self.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • superdave
    superdave Member Posts: 155
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    If I had a friend that had that done I would tell them not to pay the bill!!! As long as people don't say something it will keep happening. Just had a wall hung boiler call 1 week ago and they didn't finish the vent in the ceiling and left it for over a year. The piping was at lest 4" away from the next fitting. I ended up capping off the gas and call the plumbing inspector just waiting to hear back.