Lifting a four-story steam riser

rocketship

We are in a four-story townhouse with single-pipe steam. The riser farthest from the boiler has never heated up properly, and I suspect that over time the radiators have sunk into the floor enough to back-pitch the pipe at the base of the riser and create a pool of water (we can hear a characteristic 'panting' sound from the air vents on that line).

My plan is to disconnect the three radiators on that line and somehow pull the whole riser up 1-2", add some sort of clamp to hold it in place, re-level the radiators and reconnect. Question is - how should I raise the 40' length of pipe? Is there a proper clamp I should use at the floor level to keep it in place? I'm thinking of a two-piece riser clamp or the like.

Intplm.

A proper clamp is a riser clamp or friction clamp. It is commonly used for what you are describing.

To raise the pipe. Use a pump jack or a come along .
You will need to look for a stable place to attach the jack or come along to do this safely.

You might be able to use a long pipe or 2x4 to leverage it up. Then have another person install the before mentioned clamps.

Jamie Hall

40 feet of pipe is heavy. You can't get under the elbow at the bottom and use a jack? If not, some ingenuity and some chain you could probably use something like this: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200606588_200606588 or even an old-fashioned car bumper jack (do they even make those anymore?

Fred

If it's a 4 story Townhouse, the riser is probably only about 30 ft, unless the riser goes to the ceiling of the forth floor. 30 ft at least saves you 25% of the lifting weight.
Raising it 2 inches also means you probably need something attractive to put under the legs of each radiator connected to that riser. Be prepared with that solution as well.

Is there a horizontal pipe, in the basement to that riser? Is it pitched the wrong way due to settling of those radiators? If not, then something else is causing your problem.

JUGHNE

The basement seems the best place to jack from.
But without that, you could put a riser clamp on the vertical about 12" above the floor.
Then with 2 bumper jacks as Jamie mentioned..... (I don't think even I saved any)….or a more serious jack, they are called Handyman Jacks, raise the pipe with the temp clamp and then put another riser clamp at the floor.
The floor may need reinforcement to support the clamp and even the jacks.

Chris_L

...and I suspect that over time the radiators have sunk into the floor enough to back-pitch the pipe at the base of the riser and create a pool of water (we can hear a characteristic 'panting' sound from the air vents on that line).

But can't you look at the radiators and see exactly how much they've sunk into the floor? And if there are multiple radiators off of one vertical riser, are they all having trouble heating?

There may well be a pool of water somewhere, but it doesn't have to be anywhere near the radiators. I'd start by looking for pitch problems in the basement before I tried to lift a 40' pipe.

jumper

Why not try lifting radiators first to see if that will pull riser up?

EBEBRATT-Ed

I would start at the top and check the pitch of all radiators and run outs.......then do some jacking a little at a time.

If you can't raise it enough for whatever reason you have several options like cutting and re-piping the riser in the basement or cutting a tee in the basement and dipping into a wet return if you have one or dripping through a loop seal and back into the main

New England SteamWorks

If condensate is collecting at the base of the riser it will bang.

Absent banging, I would vent the top of the riser.

clammy

Governale makes cast iron leg extension for when replacing old style column rads to thin water tube . I just used a set on a job and they worked perfectly didn’t have to replace the riser nipple to the valve . It was beautiful peace and good luck clammy

ethicalpaul

Here's my discussion about this very topic: https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/167233/fixing-pitch-issues-in-old-house/p1

I was able to pull up my 2nd story bedroom radiator that has a place for water to pool at the point where the riser leaves the main and it does the same thing you describe. Always "pants", never gets full heat, steam gets killed bubbling through the water pool. It used to knock but stopped knocking after I pulled up the radiator, but I couldn't get the pool completely removed.

I'm going to re-run this riser in the living space and abandon what's there in the wall. I understand you may not have that option and I wish you luck!

I lifted the radiator a little at a time over several days with a 2x4 and a helper to put boards under the feet

Here are riser clamps: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Riser-Clamps-27560000

rocketship

Thanks all - great to have your brainstorming on this!
I know exactly where the pool of water is - before the riser turns to go up from the cellar is an (almost) horizontal 'L' of pipe, with a union in the long leg. It was probably always a dubious arrangement, and I suspect it has been a problem for a long time, given the number of vents tapped into it along the way. I think I will try the riser clamp and jacks - the one thing I remember from my structural engineering classes in school is that long skinny steel pipes like to be in tension, not compression!

Will report back.

ethicalpaul

Chris_L said:

But can't you look at the radiators and see exactly how much they've sunk into the floor?

Not if it's the floor itself that is lower

FriendlyFred

The spreader attachment on this hydraulic jack kit [ https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641796_200641796 ] Is great for lifting radiators and leveling pipes in a gentle way.

I'm a fan of checkers slid under the radiator feet to re-slope. The ridges help them stack nicely.

pecmsg

rocketship said:

Thanks all - great to have your brainstorming on this!
I know exactly where the pool of water is - before the riser turns to go up from the cellar is an (almost) horizontal 'L' of pipe, with a union in the long leg. It was probably always a dubious arrangement, and I suspect it has been a problem for a long time, given the number of vents tapped into it along the way. I think I will try the riser clamp and jacks - the one thing I remember from my structural engineering classes in school is that long skinny steel pipes like to be in tension, not compression!

Will report back.

So what size pipe?
How old is this system?

Is it possible to cut out the ell and raise the horizontal?

rocketship

ethicalpaul said:

Chris_L said:

But can't you look at the radiators and see exactly how much they've sunk into the floor?

Not if it's the floor itself that is lower

The radiator in our apartment is visibly sunken 1-2" at the valve end where years of water damage have destroyed the wood floor and subfloor - an aesthetic condition I would love to be able to tend to as a side benefit!

clammy

If you can’t raise the whole riser why not drip that riser and bring it back to a wet return . Seems to me to be the easier if there access to the basement piping and a wet return piping then to disconnect all the rads jack the riser do build ups to match the new supply valve heights . I hope you where planning on disconnecting the rads other wise that jacking could Crete other repairs possible leaks and stress . Hope that helps peace and good luck clammy

pecmsg

rocketship said:

ethicalpaul said:

Chris_L said:

But can't you look at the radiators and see exactly how much they've sunk into the floor?

Not if it's the floor itself that is lower

The radiator in our apartment is visibly sunken 1-2" at the valve end where years of water damage have destroyed the wood floor and subfloor - an aesthetic condition I would love to be able to tend to as a side benefit!

How long is this horizontal run?
1" drop shouldn't cause pooling, are you sure theirs not another issue?