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Why not convert to natural gas??

adasilva
adasilva Member Posts: 144
In reading my manual for my boiler it states not to convert it to any gaseous fuel I.E natural gas or LP gas. Now the main reason I question this is that the boiler has been converted to a natural gas via a Carlin EZ gas conversion set up. Is there any reason to worry if this was done incorrectly?
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Comments

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,491
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 3,798
    Typical CYA by US Boiler.
    Did you have the conversion done or did you inherit this situation?
    Have it serviced and tested with a digital combustion analyzer by a heating pro. Also check that the conversion is proper. Spill switch, stainless chimney liner, etc.
    Warranty is void but as long as its piped, wired and tuned with the analyzer you should be good.
    adasilvaethicalpaul
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    @HVACNUT I inherited the system and had it all checked by my local heating company. It seems to be good to go as there were no issues when it was checked.
    ethicalpaul
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 1,887
    adasilva said:

    @HVACNUT I inherited the system and had it all checked by my local heating company. It seems to be good to go as there were no issues when it was checked.

    Was a Combustion Analyses Done? If yes there should be a print out on the boiler, post it.
    SuperTech
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    @pecmsg This is what I have
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 4,817
    That's not very good combustion numbers for nat gas. I would have your tech get a hold of Carlin while he's in your basement and see if you have the right orifice and right gas pressure. They should be able to help you get that burner dialed in better.
    Stack temp is way too high (too much draft?).
    steve
    SuperTechadasilvarick in Alaskadelta T
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,574
    Definitely high stack temperature, I agree with Steve.
    I don't know if it is true or if it applies to your boiler but I have heard that some boilers aren't good candidates for conversion because of risk of wrecking the thermo rope gaskets that are used on some oil fired boilers. This information came from a manufacturer that uses no refractory material or gaskets on their boilers so take it with a grain of salt.
    adasilva
  • ch4man
    ch4man Member Posts: 239
    that appears overfired. try to not burn the house down.
    just reducing draft alone to reduce the flue gas temperature could drop your O2 possibly to the point of now creating high CO

    isnt this the reason stated why the megasteam shouldnt use a gas gun, the flue passageways are to large (unrestricted) ?
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    @STEVEusaPA I know that the manual for the boiler states certain height and size of the flue pipe and the reaction I got when I posted pics of it were to move it higher up. Would this have a direct effect on stack temp?
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    @ch4man that's a comforting comment......
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 8,523
    @adasilva

    Don't panic just find a tech that knows that burner. If nothing is amiss inside the boiler you are just overfired. You combustion #s are excellent except for the stack temperature and your CO2 is slightly high. I would like to keep it between 8 & 9%

    The good news is when you quiet the fired down a little you gurgling radiators may calm down as well, water level will smooth out. He may have to change the orfice in the burner/adjust gas pressure.
    adasilvaSuperTech
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 1,887
    One issue with converting to NG is now YOU and whoever converted it is now responsible for it. Something goes wrong, someone gets hurt the Manufacture is not or can they be held responsible. The other is resale, can that house be sold with an appliance that's been modified against the manufactures recommendations? I know inspectors that will pick up on that!
    adasilvabob eck
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,330
    I agree- it looks overfired. What model is your New Yorker?

    I wouldn't worry about US Boiler's not liking gas conversions on their oil boilers. They need to get with the program. It makes no sense to waste a perfectly good boiler if you want to convert to gas, and most times a converted recent-model oil boiler will run more efficiently than a standard atmospheric gas boiler if the conversion is done right.

    Our resident Guru of Gas, @Tim McElwain , has done thousands of conversions and never had a problem.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
    SuperTech
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    @pecmsg said:
    > One issue with converting to NG is now YOU and whoever converted it is now responsible for it. Something goes wrong, someone gets hurt the Manufacture is not or can they be held responsible. The other is resale, can that house be sold with an appliance that's been modified against the manufactures recommendations? I know inspectors that will pick up on that!

    I get that idea but the inspector didn't catch it on my walk thru with him when I bought the house a year ago. Not that it makes a difference at this point. It's like electrical once you touch it it's yours to bring up to code........
    pecmsg
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 1,887



    I get that idea but the inspector didn't catch it on my walk thru with him when I bought the house a year ago. Not that it makes a difference at this point. It's like electrical once you touch it it's yours to bring up to code........

    Exactly

    adasilva
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    > @Steamhead said:
    > I agree- it looks overfired. What model is your New Yorker?
    >
    > I wouldn't worry about US Boiler's not liking gas conversions on their oil boilers. They need to get with the program. It makes no sense to waste a perfectly good boiler if you want to convert to gas, and most times a converted recent-model oil boiler will run more efficiently than a standard atmospheric gas boiler if the conversion is done right.
    >
    > Our resident Guru of Gas, @Tim McElwain , has done thousands of conversions and never had a problem.

    It is a CLS-3-P. As for over firing it sounds like a jet engine when it kicks on and I've been to other houses with boilers that were not 1/4 as loud as this one. Often wondered if that was a possibility ??
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,330
    edited December 2018
    I would definitely suspect over-firing. That boiler should not be fired above 140,000 BTU per hour, and a little less can't hurt. It appears similar to the Burnham V7 or V8 boilers.

    Also, in my experience the burner should be equipped with a 9-slot diffuser rather than the A or B diffuser. This creates an air pattern similar to the original oil burner.

    Where are you located?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    @Steamhead I'm In RI near the Massachusetts border.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,330
    Get in touch with @Charlie from wmass . He has a lot of experience with the EZ-Gas.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
    adasilvaSuperTech
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    @Steamhead I will do just that! Thank you.
  • Tim McElwain
    Tim McElwain Member Posts: 4,444
    adasilva give me a call at 401-437-0557 I can connect you with some folks in RI that I trained who can help you out.
    adasilvaSuperTechHVACNUTCanucker
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    @Tim McElwain I will do that
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,166
    Sorry not licensed in Rhode Island
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    @Charlie from wmass all good!!
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    @Steamhead the cut sheet for the burner states that the B diffuser plate is rated for 50,000 to 175,000 BTUH which is within range of the 140,000 you stated. Does the air pattern have that much to do with efficiency, or is it more just mimicking what it was originally designed to run on that makes it critical?
    Also the cut sheet states they run quietly! I'd like to have the guy who wrote that statement come hear my unit :)
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 3,992
    Combustion numbers are good, just high temp

    Perhaps 'over-fired' yet the chimney is taking what the burner is sending to it.

    Time to scrub the heat exchanger? maybe the old oil soot is still hanging about

    Has anyone bothered to clock the gas meter?
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    www.wilsonph.com
    [email protected]
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    GW said:

    Combustion numbers are good, just high temp

    Perhaps 'over-fired' yet the chimney is taking what the burner is sending to it.

    Time to scrub the heat exchanger? maybe the old oil soot is still hanging about

    Has anyone bothered to clock the gas meter?

    To be honest the last time it was serviced I was not there to observe what was done.........road trip for work,wife was there and the burner was locked out so she had no heat at the time.

    I arrived at the tail end of the service and it was up and running but not there to see exactly what they did. It appears that it was just a combustion test and reset of the Carlin. He did mention that he vacuumed the unit but I don't think that he scrubbed it like I have seen in videos.

    As for clocking the gas meter, I have no idea what that entails or who would do that?

    And can I scrub it myself? Don't see why not? and where do I get one of those metal "brushes"?
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 2,727
    You can clock the gas meter yourself, it's pretty simple. Wait for (or induce) the burner to run with no other gas appliances firing, then go out & time how long it takes the fastest moving pointer to make one (or more) complete revolutions. It should be marked with how much gas it counts, ½ or 1 cubic feet is common. After that, there are lots of tables to use, or here's instructions on how to make the calculations.
    Charlie from wmass
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 3,992
    Yes “scrub” was a bit of an expression. I wouldn’t recommend attempting this yourself “brush” or “sweep” is more common wording

    FYI our company charges more for this———-we attempt to be very clear on what we do for x dollars spent. Nat Gas is very clean, if there’s spot that means something is abnormal

    Clocking the meter- this you can do. Make sure no other appliance is running (water heater, gas range, etc). Start the heating system. Go to your gas meter and “time” how long it takes for the 2 Cu Ft dial to make a complete and full revolution. Write that down or memorize that number (in seconds).

    Just google “gas meter clocking “ and you can see how many BTU of gas you’re burning. It’s a simple chart.

    Or just post here (how many seconds). I have a this stuff stored on my phone

    Actually I’ll attach a pic

    Look at the boilers “firing capacity”. You may see 1.1 GPH or .9 GPH or whatever. So one GPH is 140,000 btu. NOTE you want the Input rating, NOT the output or the IBR rating
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    www.wilsonph.com
    [email protected]
    adasilva
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    edited December 2018
    @ratio @GW great information! I watched a video of cleaning a heat exchanger on an oil boiler and it doesn't look all that complex. One thing that I won't do is open the combustion chamber on my own as it appears that you have to remove the burner ETC. I'm not afraid to do it but I believe that it probably needs a licensed tech to play with it and I don't have the meters or knowledge to do it, so.................. B) better safe than sorry!

    It has been converted to gas so it was an oil burning unit at one time and I wonder if the prior owner even had this type of service done.
    ratio
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    edited December 2018
    GW said:

    Yes “scrub” was a bit of an expression. I wouldn’t recommend attempting this yourself “brush” or “sweep” is more common wording



    FYI our company charges more for this———-we attempt to be very clear on what we do for x dollars spent. Nat Gas is very clean, if there’s spot that means something is abnormal



    Clocking the meter- this you can do. Make sure no other appliance is running (water heater, gas range, etc). Start the heating system. Go to your gas meter and “time” how long it takes for the 2 Cu Ft dial to make a complete and full revolution. Write that down or memorize that number (in seconds).



    Just google “gas meter clocking “ and you can see how many BTU of gas you’re burning. It’s a simple chart.



    Or just post here (how many seconds). I have a this stuff stored on my phone



    Actually I’ll attach a pic



    Look at the boilers “firing capacity”. You may see 1.1 GPH or .9 GPH or whatever. So one GPH is 140,000 btu. NOTE you want the Input rating, NOT the output or the IBR rating

    OK so I'm burning approx 4 CF per min per my stopwatch & the the boiler plate states 1.05 GPH for #2 oil.......
  • gennady
    gennady Member Posts: 806
    edited January 2019
    Numbers look good except stack temp
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 3,992
    It seems like you’re at 240,000 btu per hour. Your boiler is designed for 147,000 btu per hour. Time for some more tweeting.

    There doesn’t appear to be any immediate danger; but that system is way off
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    www.wilsonph.com
    [email protected]
    adasilvarick in Alaska
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,166
    Double the fire rate is an immediate danger. Wow! Please confirm the rotation of the meter
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,330
    Yikes! @adasilva , call Tim NOW!

    And @Charlie from wmass , maybe it's time to look into a RI license.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
    ChrisJGW
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    @Steamhead spoke with him yesterday and he gave me numbers to call. Doing that now as yesterday was full of running around...
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,166
    Post a video please
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    I'll DBL check my meter to make sure I wasn't miss calculating but I did come up with 240 as well......
  • adasilva
    adasilva Member Posts: 144
    Lemmie get it rolling.....
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