Best small gas steam boiler

ChrisJ

KC_Jones said:

Tim McElwain_4 said:

To the best of my knowledge Burnhams reasoning is that they do not have any way of knowing the expertise of the installer. That being said they do not want to assume responsibility for any failure.

I am assuming they have never seen some of the steam piping that has been applied to their boilers?

Maybe they have and that's their reasoning.

Dave0176

Dave0176 said:

Weil-McLain is my top choice, however I’ve installed Burnham Independence boilers, Crown boilers and Peerless. My opinion is you got to be careful with Burnhams on the east coast, there very sensitive to high chloride water. I’m not a fan of Utica, Dunkirk or any ECR gas steam boilers with side steam outlets.

Depending on where you live Weil-McLain also has a rebadged boiler called Williamson, Thermoflo, Union Steam and Genesis. These are identical to the EG series except the dark green paint and sell for about 20-30% less.

Wow, have ideas changed in only 24 hours lol!!!!!!!!!!
Weil-McLain will not even be considered on a job now!!!!!

ethicalpaul

Wow Dave, that really shows how strong you feel about the two supplies! Have you ever done a single pipe job?

Even my junky dunkirk with a single 2” side tap heats my house quietly and pretty well now that it’s vented and I mostly fixed a slope issue

I’m still aiming for the Williamson 30. Maybe I can find a new old stock 😂

Danny Scully

I’ve been told by Burnham it’s because the megasteam has a positive pressure firebox. And that they also noticed a loss in efficiency with their minimal testing of it.

Canucker

> @ethicalpaul said:
> Wow Dave, that really shows how strong you feel about the two supplies! Have you ever done a single pipe job?
>
> Even my junky dunkirk with a single 2” side tap heats my house quietly and pretty well now that it’s vented and I mostly fixed a slope issue
>
> I’m still aiming for the Williamson 30. Maybe I can find a new old stock 😂

Can't speak for @Dave0176 but with only one outlet your placement options are limited. What Weil-mcclain saved on tapping and plugs, you're probably going to pay more for pipe to fit it properly in place. Definitely not passing their savings on to the consumer

Dave0176

> @ethicalpaul said:
> Wow Dave, that really shows how strong you feel about the two supplies! Have you ever done a single pipe job?
>
> Even my junky dunkirk with a single 2” side tap heats my house quietly and pretty well now that it’s vented and I mostly fixed a slope issue
>
> I’m still aiming for the Williamson 30. Maybe I can find a new old stock 😂

Which Williamson Paul EG30 or GSA300,000??
Williamson uses GSA as their model number followed by the BTU rating.

If it’s the GSA75,000 yes in the past I’ve used one riser, a single 3” riser to a 3” drop header. Worked very well.

ethicalpaul

Thanks @Dave0176 yes I mistakenly used the WM number. I meant the GSA75000. The tap is 2" unless I'm mistaken, so you enlarged it at the boiler to 3" to give lots of room to the steam, correct? I was mistaken! It's a 3" supply. I've been looking at too many boilers!

Speaking of mistakes--AFSupply is trying to make it hard to choose the right boiler. They state the input BTU but then say it "pumps out" that value. To me "pumps out" better be talking about the output BTU!

Steamhead

Danny Scully said:

I’ve been told by Burnham it’s because the megasteam has a positive pressure firebox. And that they also noticed a loss in efficiency with their minimal testing of it.

My BS meter goes off the scale when I hear this.

They make gas burners that can fire positive pressure boilers. They really do. Look at the Solaia, for example, which is available with the EZ-Gas. That boiler runs positive pressure, just like the MegaSteam.

And "minimal testing" means they didn't really try, doesn't it? Look at the Solaia's sell sheet, for example:

http://cdn.columbiaheating.com.s3.amazonaws.com/certificates/solaia 4 pg 2017.pdf

There are some minor AFUE differences, but the gas ratings are still better than atmospheric boilers will ever be. The MegaSteam would blow away any atmospheric when equipped with a good power gas burner.

Maybe Burnham is more beholden to the oil companies than we know?

coelcanth

75,000 is the input not the output..
don't go by the ad copy..
that was probably written by an uninformed web designer ...
here's the link to the full manufacturer's specsheet

https://www.afsupply.com/media/catalog/product/specsheets/2299_will_gsa_spread1012_printr3.pdf

ethicalpaul said:

Thanks @Dave0176 yes I mistakenly used the WM number. I meant the GSA75000. The tap is 2" unless I'm mistaken, so you enlarged it at the boiler to 3" to give lots of room to the steam, correct? I was mistaken! It's a 3" supply. I've been looking at too many boilers!

Speaking of mistakes--AFSupply is trying to make it hard to choose the right boiler. They state the input BTU but then say it "pumps out" that value. To me "pumps out" better be talking about the output BTU!

ethicalpaul

Hi folks-- I thought of another question related to this thread. After installing my new boiler, I'm considering surprising my wife with a hydronic radiant bathroom floor potentially using the condensate from the boiler. I have read https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/how-to-run-a-hot-water-zone-off-a-steam-boiler/ a few times and it looks good.

Is there a boiler that is especially useful for this kind of use, such as containing a hot water coil or at least taps that I can use to circulate the water up to the floor?

The article says you can use a heat exchanger or not...does anyone have a strong preference? I prefer simplicity, but I also could see benefits to not running boiler water up 20 feet into the house.

Thank you all so much

Steamhead

Depending on what type of tubing you use, running steam boiler water may not be a good idea. You'd need a heat exchanger. Also, boiler water will be too hot for radiant. You'd need to mix it down somehow. Lots of complication for such a small room...............

ethicalpaul

Thanks, I feel good about having a heat exchanger. Any ideas for good boilers for this? In our latest episode i was still pointing toward the Williamson 075

Dave0176

ethicalpaul said:

Thanks, I feel good about having a heat exchanger. Any ideas for good boilers for this? In our latest episode i was still pointing toward the Williamson 075

@ethicalpaul you can’t beat the price of the Williamson. Here is how I did one last year.

Fred

@Dave0176 , it has been mentioned from time to time that the WM/Williamson boilers are a lot lighter in weight than others, like the Peerless products. Has anyone ever measured the wall thickness of the sections of various boiler brands and determined how that affects longevity? It seems like initial acquisition cost is attractive but only if the boiler lasts equally as long, across the various brands. I know there are a ton of variables associated with boiler life but construction has to also play a big role in its life.

ethicalpaul

Nice! I love that tiny drop header!

Does it have any tappings or hot water loop to help me with my radiant floor zone mentioned above?

Thanks @Dave0176

Dave0176

ethicalpaul said:

Nice! I love that tiny drop header!



Does it have any tappings or hot water loop to help me with my radiant floor zone mentioned above?



Thanks @Dave0176

No with Williamson what you see is what you get, you have to move over to Weil-McLain so you can order the boiler with tankless coil.

Dave0176

Fred said:

@Dave0176 , it has been mentioned from time to time that the WM/Williamson boilers are a lot lighter in weight than others, like the Peerless products. Has anyone ever measured the wall thickness of the sections of various boiler brands and determined how that affects longevity? It seems like initial acquisition cost is attractive but only if the boiler lasts equally as long, across the various brands. I know there are a ton of variables associated with boiler life but construction has to also play a big role in its life.

Hi @Fred according to the Peerless rep the 63 casting is about a quarter of an inch thick. The WMs are no where near that heavy.
A 4 section 63 is about 80-100 lbs heavier then the 4 section EG

STEAM DOCTOR

The peerless boilers are a bit taller. About 2.5" or something like that. Might contribute to the extra weight.

Boon

@ethicalpaul during our hydronic install we opted for electric grids for bathroom floor heat and electric towel bars, and we're glad we did. There were many-many times, much of the shoulder seasons, when we used/wanted/needed floor heat but the boiler wasn't running. Electric floor heat & towel bar heat on a programmable thermostat worked really well for us.

edit: we didn't use grids; we used Schluter®-DITRA-HEAT-E-HK

ethicalpaul

That makes a lot of sense, @Boon but I'm not sure I could handle the philosophical quandary that would result from running 20 or 30 amps of juice while I had a hot boiler sitting in the basement!

But I'll think about it!

Steamhead

ethicalpaul said:

That makes a lot of sense, @Boon but I'm not sure I could handle the philosophical quandary that would result from running 20 or 30 amps of juice while I had a hot boiler sitting in the basement!

But I'll think about it!

Also, we've known cases where electric floor radiant has quit working after a few years. Then you have to tear up the floor to fix it. If you just have to have it, put a radiator in the room as well so you won't freeze.

ethicalpaul

There's already a radiator in there but I'm renovating that bathroom and I know my wife would love warm feet

Steamhead

Simple. Keep the radiator and install the electric floor.

ethicalpaul

So you’d run electrical rather than hydronic?

Koan

@PMJ What are you now using rather than the solenoid? I had difficulty finding something with low enough cracking pressure.

Steamhead

ethicalpaul said:

So you’d run electrical rather than hydronic?

It depends. Running hydronic radiant off a steam boiler adds a lot of components which increases the complication actor. See my earlier post. But the pipes will last if you're not running nasty water in them.

Electric radiant in-floor mats have been known to fail after a few years.

This is probably just me, but I like to keep things simple and easily repairable- especially if I'm the one who has to maintain them.

SuperJ

Electrical infloor, especially if just done for warming under tile actually doesn't use that many watts per square foot. I agree that many of the people I know with electric infloor have had it fail within a couple years.

Personally, I have a well placed panel rad that faces the shower area, it does a great job keeping surfaces comfortable in my bathroom with out heating the floors. My daughters actually thought I had installed infloor heat when I first enabled it last year, because the floor temperature was so much warmer than it had been.

ethicalpaul

Thanks @Steamhead and @SuperJ

> This is probably just me, but I like to keep things simple and easily repairable- especially if I'm the one who has to maintain them.

I agree, but I'm trying to weigh that against your statement that the electric floors fail, and those don't seem too repairable, being underneath my tile or whatever

Maybe a panel radiator is best...the little wall-mount one I have is pretty good, but it is putting about 1/2 of its heat into the exterior wall space and the riser likewise.

I think I will put the pex into the subfloor and run the lines to the basement just in case. Thanks again!

Edit for readers of the future: I went with a Peerless 63-03L and it installed beautifully. See https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/180795/diy-steam-boiler-install

BobC

I have a 22 EDR Sunrad right beside the tub and that little fella does a fine job of making it comfortable when you step out of the shower.

Two things help the Sunrad do it's job. First the pipe feeding that little fella runs under the floor right next to the tub. Second is my 3 degree setback ends about 40 minutes before I get up.

The first helper was done back when the previous owners completely overhauled that bathroom back in the 70's, the second was when I programmed my setback thermostat

Bob