Columbia Gas Over Pressurization Incident in MA

Leonard

With all the red tape of gov regulations good luck laying hot water lines thru the neighborhood. Right of way issues ect.......

And getting a coal plant approved with CO2 issues , big red flag. Not to mention coal emissions mercury ect.......

luketheplumber

coal in the worst it is dirty it destroys our atmosphere and it is nonrenewable I think we should get our energy from solar panels, windmills and water turbines our planet earth is heating up like an oversize steam radiator the time to go green is now not tomorrow not not next month not 2040 it is today the damage is bad enough

Gilmorrie

I don't know how these futuristic suggestions can help people without gas fuel during the next few weeks.

Gordy

Right @ChrisJ. We tend to forget the norm of the population.

ChrisJ

> @Gordy said:
> Right @ChrisJ. We tend to forget the norm of the population.

I try to.... Really I do.

leonz

Nobody said the gas utility had or has a say in how a district heating system would be installed if the distric heating system it was owned by the municipality. after all they own the streets all the way tot he curb boxes do they not?

Anthracite coal is pure carbon, Anthracite coal is clean burning with high heat value with no emmissions like soft coal burners of wood chip or wood pellet burners.

Gordy

I’m sure you didn’t mean no emissions.

https://www3.epa.gov/ttnchie1/ap42/ch01/final/c01s02.pdf

Sailah

leonz said:

Good morning Sailah,


I have a coal stoker boiler to heat my old house. Small coal stoker stoves that use rice coal are every efficient and can be direct vented through an outside wall with either a powerventer or the forced draft fan of the coal stoker.

You could pitch something that emitted only unicorn tears but if it has "coal" in the name, the politics of that in MA are unsellable.

ratio

Maybe it could be called Modified Vegetable Matter.

MVM is 100% renewable, uses no dangerous chemicals in the production cycle, completely natural, spills are only slightly more effort to clean up than sand, can be made clean-burning (depending on source matter & process type), easily & safely transported in bulk, can be post production processed for efficient use in a multitude of applications, can use existing infrastructure for distribution, the list goes on and on. Why use anything else?

Gordy

luketheplumber said:

coal in the wort is dirty i destroys our atmosphere and it is nonrenewable I think we should get our energy from solar panels, windmills and water turbines our planet earth is heating up like an oversize steam radiator the time to go green is now not tomorrow not not next month not 2040 it is today the damage is bad enough

The perception of the time to go green is when energy prices sky rocket. Then everyone is on point. Then the energy prices fall, and so does the thrust of going green energy, and so thats how the green energy sea saw operates.


Same with hi efficiency equipment. It pays when energy prices are high, but when they are low everyone questions the validity of such equipment.

SlamDunk

http://utunisphere.com/

Forward thinking. It is not cheap but can be done.

Gordy

“ managing the development of an unlimited supply of transplantable organs.”

Some how the movie Coma flashed in my head......

Of course it takes the deep pockets of the medical industry to pull off a unisphere.

SlamDunk

Not as gruesome as coma. Most pharma companies are involved with regenerative medicines. From using patient cells grown in a lab and put thru a 3d printer to using genetically blank pigs raised with patients cells to eliminate body rejection of transplanted organs and a life time of drug cocktails. Simply not enough human donors. Might be better than donor organs.

It takes deep pockets an test the idea like net zero and make it a reality. If enough deep pockets make the investment, costs will come down. The world becomes more efficient with it's limited resources. The money invested in this building could have been used to boost the bottom line.

luketheplumber

Gordy
"The perception of the time to go green is when energy prices sky rocket. Then everyone is on point. Then the energy prices fall, and so does the thrust of going green energy, and so thats how the green energy sea saw operates.


Same with hi efficiency equipment. It pays when energy prices are high, but when they are low everyone questions the validity of such equipment."


high efficiency gas and oil boilers are only a temporary fix plus global warming is right here right now just look at coral reefs, sea level rising and our melting glaciers

Gordy

You are preaching to the choir. I’m merrily stating how the bulk of society rolls.

NY_Rob

Looking at some of the personal weather stations in the Andover area, looks like it went down to 28F last night. It's already "heating season" there. Those poor people are in for a very rough time....

Leonard

Can't live like that. Much as I hate unvented indoor heaters, I'ld consider propane. BBQ tank, or larger tank outside.

DEFINITELY would have a CO detector or 2..

EBEBRATT-Ed

The company I work for (we are located in Western MA) has been asked to put a crew together to assist on this project.

Problem for me is they want 7 x 12 hours days and stay in a hotel.

@65 I'm not up for this but the payday would be fun

I am hearing that they put a pipefitter in a truck with a Columbia Gas employee and drive around testing gas piping.

SlamDunk

go for the pay day!

Gordy

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

The company I work for (we are located in Western MA) has been asked to put a crew together to assist on this project.

Problem for me is they want 7 x 12 hours days and stay in a hotel.

@65 I'm not up for this but the payday would be fun

I am hearing that they put a pipefitter in a truck with a Columbia Gas employee and drive around testing gas piping.

Is Columbia that short handed, or do they lack qualified people?

The hotel wouldn’t be fun for sure. Will they be paying fitters scale?

Solid_Fuel_Man

I've done the long-term hotel and long work day thing...

Good for a week or two.....

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Gordy,
Their are apprentices pulling in 3k a week. Boston union rate is at least 50/hr reg time.

I am 90 miles away in the "poor end" of the state. I would do 5 12s which would be bad enough. 7 12s...not me!!!

There is a lot going on.

1 all the underground to be replaced
2. All house undergoing pressur testing and evaluation
3. 3 replacement of appliances.


Don't know who is responsible for #3 (Columbia is responsible but who does the actual work)

I am guessing boilers, water heaters and furnaces may be in short supply

SlamDunk

i know at 65 , 7’,12’s would be hard. It would be hard at 35. but 75$ an hour is hard to ignore.

Gordy

The young tradesmen should be taking care of the older tradesmen.

SlamDunk

right! and youre paid by the hour, not the job. Put out quality work. Teach.

Gordy

And be teachable

New England SteamWorks

Here's a photo of a steam job just completed by the "experts at Columbia Gas:



Going to be a lot of these....

ChrisJ

> @New England SteamWorks said:
> Here's a photo of a steam job just completed by the "experts at Columbia Gas:
>
>
>
> Going to be a lot of these....

Looks like the botched piping was already there, they just connected to it and didn't fix it.

KC_Jones

ChrisJ said:

> @New England SteamWorks said:

> Here's a photo of a steam job just completed by the "experts at Columbia Gas:

>

>

>

> Going to be a lot of these....



Looks like the botched piping was already there, they just connected to it and didn't fix it.

Agree with @ChrisJ

I think the point is the new installer didn't recognize the fixes that needed to be done just did a cut and slide. Sad

@New England SteamWorks are you there to do a re-pipe?

pecmsg

I dont think Pro Press approves those fittings for STEAM!

Any AHJ these hacks can be reported to?
Local papers or media?

People are going to get hurt!

New England SteamWorks

KC_Jones said:

@New England SteamWorks are you there to do a re-pipe?

No! The owner contacted us because his brand new boiler wasn't running well at all. I asked for a pic of the install.

Then I told them to call the guy back.

EBEBRATT-Ed

What do you expect? Columbia is not going to pay to repipe the whole house there just going to get the heat going and make the gas side safe. Put back what was there.

May not be right but that's what your going to get

pecmsg

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

What do you expect? Columbia is not going to pay to repipe the whole house there just going to get the heat going and make the gas side safe. Put back what was there.

May not be right but that's what your going to get

But they still have to follow manufactures requirements, local, state and federal codes!

ChrisJ

> @pecmsg said:
> What do you expect? Columbia is not going to pay to repipe the whole house there just going to get the heat going and make the gas side safe. Put back what was there.
>
> May not be right but that's what your going to get
>
> But they still have to follow manufactures requirements, local, state and federal codes!

I have a friend that tried taking a contractor to court over an improperly piped steam boiler. A classic headerless one.

Guess who won? It wasn't the homeowner.

pecmsg

ChrisJ said:

> @pecmsg said:

> What do you expect? Columbia is not going to pay to repipe the whole house there just going to get the heat going and make the gas side safe. Put back what was there.

>

> May not be right but that's what your going to get

>

> But they still have to follow manufactures requirements, local, state and federal codes!



I have a friend that tried taking a contractor to court over an improperly piped steam boiler. A classic headerless one.



Guess who won? It wasn't the homeowner.

Unfortunately that's up to the Lawyers and Judge. Justice is Blind remember.
McDonald's lost because of a hot cup of Coffee!

ChrisJ

> @pecmsg said:
> > @pecmsg said:
>
> > What do you expect? Columbia is not going to pay to repipe the whole house there just going to get the heat going and make the gas side safe. Put back what was there.
>
> >
>
> > May not be right but that's what your going to get
>
> >
>
> > But they still have to follow manufactures requirements, local, state and federal codes!
>
>
>
> I have a friend that tried taking a contractor to court over an improperly piped steam boiler. A classic headerless one.
>
>
>
> Guess who won? It wasn't the homeowner.
>
> Unfortunately that's up to the Lawyers and Judge. Justice is Blind remember.
> McDonald's lost because of a hot cup of Coffee!

Very true.

pecmsg

That may actually be a great area to test the Pro Press Steam Fittings.

leonz

I hope that gas boiler does not leak, yeesh!!

If they are digging up the streets and doing all that work a district heating system looks like it would be a better idea as the towns own the streets and curbs if any.

Myself I am not looking forward to eventually replacing all the near boiler copper the plumbers put in my coal stokers return to sump header but at least cutting it out when it starts leaking will not be a big job.

Jamie Hall

District heating in a neat idea -- if the population density is high enough. It isn't up there...

leonz

Hello Mr. Hall,

I thought that they had a higher population density with all the housing in the area.

I was thinking along the lines of the largest all canadian heater
with the 2,300,000 BTU rating that is UL approved canadian UL approved.

You could run the PEX ALL PEX heavy carcass close cell foam insulated tubing for miles with very low heat loss and low head pressures as the system would be pressurized by a number of ceiling hung steel compression tanks or a series of bladder expansion tanks piped off the 4 inch tapping in the top of the boiler.

It would be fun to examine anyway as the system would continue to make 160+degree water and push it from the boiler house all the way to the end and back with a circulator or circulators for up to four one inch loops.

As Mr. Holohan says "Be The Ball" and think about the possibilities.