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A word of warning about night setback in this cold weather.

RayWohlfarth
RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,648
I urge you to tell your customers with a steam or hydronic system to remove the night setback from the controls during this cold snap. When the weather is at or below the outdoor design temperature of your location, it is sometimes very difficult for the system to catch up from a night setback temperature. I have seen old churches never get back to the setpoint when the weather is cold. Hoping it saves you a service call.
Stay warm
Ray
Ray Wohlfarth
Boiler Lessons
IronmanRich_49Zmanhydro_newbiehvacgeek1989New England SteamWorks

Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,539
    It's also a good way to freeze pipes that are in outside walls, eaves and attics.

    Thank you, Ray.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    ZmankcoppNew England SteamWorks
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
    That should fall under the category of, common sense...jmo
    Ironmankcopp
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,599
    Yep.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,539
    j a said:

    That should fall under the category of, common sense...jmo

    True, but common sense is a flower that doesn't grow in everyone's garden. :*

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    kcoppCanuckerNY_Rob
  • L Thiesen
    L Thiesen Member Posts: 54
    Very true about the common sense, I had two customers tell me this week that the weather had not been cold enough to freeze water pipes even though we hit -8 degrees one night. It amazes me how many people don’t grasp the fact that water freezes at 32 degrees.
  • Leonard
    Leonard Member Posts: 903
    edited January 2018
    Automatic = Out of sight, out of mind
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,599
    edited January 2018
    I looked out the window for a good long time today and watched the fury of nature. The trees looked like this:

    Yeah, the pipes can freeze.

    Image result for blowing man advertising
    Retired and loving it.
  • Leonard
    Leonard Member Posts: 903
    edited January 2018
    Northern NH, NOAA says Sunday dawn -10 degs F, BURRRRRRRR

    TV station says Boston -19
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,715
    One might hope that some of the "professionals" would use some common sense, too, though -- our "automatic" oil delivery didn't yesterday when it was supposed to (it's supposed to be weekly); we will be out of oil tomorrow morning. We have friends with the same problem with LP deliveries.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • unclejohn
    unclejohn Member Posts: 1,833
    Most people think it's the pipe that froze and not the water in it.
    kcoppGordyIronman
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,463
    I have seen it a few times this week...
  • mikeg2015
    mikeg2015 Member Posts: 1,194
    My night setback is for comfort. With all my leaks it gets there in about 1 hour in this weather.

    Wait, there are steam systems where radiator matches heat loss? I though having 2x the capacity was normal. I recovered 15f in 2 hours last week at -3f oat. ;)

    I agree. A low mass stick frame home even with good insulation could freeze pipes foolishly placed in outside walls pretty fast.
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,827
    @mikeg2015 my steam rads are pretty much the heat loss of the house. I might have a few thousand BTU "reserve", but that's not much in this weather. I kept my overnight setback of 3 degrees, and it is managing to claw it's way back, but it will probably take most of the day.

    For me it's not a huge deal, for my stay at home wife it is. ;)
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
    Maybe you could rotate the air vent on the bedroom radiator, closing the steam off, and have a lower sleeping temperature, without lowering the whole house temperature, or maybe this would be a good use for a TRV.—NBC
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    It's amazing how little heat is actually needed to maintain temp vs. raise temp even in the coldest weather.

    If you prefer setback, just abandon it for the short cold spell then go back to it later on. Your boiler (and family) will thank you!
    RomanGK_26986764589
  • It always takes more energy to maintain versus cooling down and reheating. It takes more power to let cool then reheat versus maintain. It's BTU vs BTU/h or kWh vs kW - which one is your biggest constraint/cost.

    But yes cooling down too far with low outside air temp and trying to reheat without enough power (BTU/h or kW from your heat source) will take a long time and risk freezing in some situations.
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,648
    -5 here this morning and our heating design temp is 7 Deg F. Some of the old systems cant overcome that.
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • New England SteamWorks
    New England SteamWorks Member Posts: 1,526

    One might hope that some of the "professionals" would use some common sense, too, though -- our "automatic" oil delivery didn't yesterday when it was supposed to (it's supposed to be weekly); we will be out of oil tomorrow morning. We have friends with the same problem with LP deliveries.

    Well, you have to pity those poor guys. If they over-staffed to prepare for times like these, everyone would run from them like the plague when they saw the price.

    Then you throw in super cold weather which means deliveries need to be made far more frequently, and all the snow, which means deliveries take far longer to make, -and (if I may...) you have the Perfect Storm.

    The company that delivers my oil had a driver slip and fall and go out yesterday. A complete disaster for a small outfit. With all the licenses and background checks now needed to be a driver, there aren't any. She's begging me to help her. But I am slammed as well.

    Might have to though if I want any oil...
    New England SteamWorks
    Service, Installation, & Restoration of Steam Heating Systems
    newenglandsteamworks.com
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,715
    Oh I do have pity on the drivers! The poor chap who showed up this morning told me that of the 5 places he had visited so far, I was the only one who had plowed the drive and shoveled the path to the oil fill. And the company is understaffed, too. No, my beef was with the error in dispatching... for what it's worth, I had exactly 3 gallons left when he arrived! Enough for just one hour of steaming...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England