Steam Pipe Leak in Ceiling

Fred

jumper said:

Why hasn't the ceiling been opened? Water spreads.

Can't answer that. I probably would have taken that plaster patch out right away.

Fred

@MilanD , You're in Cincinnati and I'm in Dayton. When you're up this way, let me know!

Jamie Hall

For what it's worth -- here is the principal building of the place I care for, in winter:
National Register, for what that's worth.

Fred

That place is amazing, @Jamie Hall . It looks like it's had a couple additions but they all look like very early additions and well done.

Jamie Hall

Original centre section 1790; additions in 1875 and 1893. It's interesting...

Fred

Jamie Hall said:

Original centre section 1790; additions in 1875 and 1893. It's interesting...

Wow!

j a_2

If you want a quick fix...find the riser to that radiator and cap it off in the basement..that will give you time to step back and figure out your plan. A tap test is quick and 4asy

MilanD

@Fred - that's a deal!

Same if you are down in Cinci. I run the Wyoming Fine Arts Center. It is quite interesting. 1890s front house, and auditorium in the back was added in 1922 by the Masons. It sat empty for 8 years in the 1988-1995, and the Arts Center was started in Fall of 1995.

Unfortunately guys, my house is nothing like this... But, my plan is to install steam in it - still working out what exactly I'll be doing: really want to try either 1 pipe with copper lines instead if vents and a vacuum pump alla Igor Zhdanov, but I'm also really interested in doing Gerry's copper run system, Select Temp version, just with regular cast rads (like what he did). I already have the boiler and rads that was a working system I got out of a house that was tearing it out. I know I can easily do regular 1 pipe, but the vacuum really really has me wanting to go that way.

wildrage

As to why I haven't opened the ceiling. I don't feel super comfortable doing that. Leak found Saturday night, seems very small, and isolated to one area, so I put a garbage can under it. So far less than 2 cups has come out of ceiling. Plan is to call a pro first thing Monday morning. If I can't get anyone out here, I'll endeavor myself...but not looking forward to it.

Fred

@MilanD , another beautiful old home! Re-purposed into a Fine Arts Center! Next time I'm in Cincy, I'll look you up.

Fred

wildrage said:

As to why I haven't opened the ceiling. I don't feel super comfortable doing that. Leak found Saturday night, seems very small, and isolated to one area, so I put a garbage can under it. So far less than 2 cups has come out of ceiling. Plan is to call a pro first thing Monday morning. If I can't get anyone out here, I'll endeavor myself...but not looking forward to it.

My curiosity would have gotten the best of me by now and I would have cut that old patch out, just to see what was going on and how it was repaired before. In any case, no matter who does the repair, that ceiling patch will have to be opened. I'd rather be the one to do it as carefully and cleanly as I could.

jumper

wildrage said:

As to why I haven't opened the ceiling. I don't feel super comfortable doing that. Leak found Saturday night, seems very small, and isolated to one area, so I put a garbage can under it. So far less than 2 cups has come out of ceiling. Plan is to call a pro first thing Monday morning. If I can't get anyone out here, I'll endeavor myself...but not looking forward to it.

Like I said,water spreads. And that spreads the damage. Lay newspapers on floor. Whack the bubble. Catch water in your garbage can. Clean up mess. Leave bucket under drip.

wildrage

jumper said:

wildrage said:

As to why I haven't opened the ceiling. I don't feel super comfortable doing that. Leak found Saturday night, seems very small, and isolated to one area, so I put a garbage can under it. So far less than 2 cups has come out of ceiling. Plan is to call a pro first thing Monday morning. If I can't get anyone out here, I'll endeavor myself...but not looking forward to it.

Like I said,water spreads. And that spreads the damage. Lay newspapers on floor. Whack the bubble. Catch water in your garbage can. Clean up mess. Leave bucket under drip.

@Fred , @jumper
Point taken. Bubble was opened, drips are going right into garbage can (actually a pot within the garbage can, because I want an idea of how much water is leaking). In past 24 hours 1 cup of water was recovered from ceiling. While I have never shyed away from DIY stuff, I've never opened a ceiling before so am a little nervous. In my head, I also wanted to keep it how the plumber left it, since I'm calling him back to fix it...which probably doesn't make any sense since it's been 10 years.....

Fred

I understand. I always say 90% of a job is the apprehension that comes with starting the job and the actual work turns out to be the remaining 10%.

wildrage

Fred said:

I understand. I always say 90% of a job is the apprehension that comes with starting the job and the actual work turns out to be the remaining 10%.

Totally agree. I had to replace a cracked cast iron drain line for an upstairs bathroom in a room with some elaborate woodwork. The plumber punted to a contractor because he didn't want to touch it (I don't blame him). At the end of the day, I was charged more to open up and close the ceiling than the plumbing job....and watching them do it, it's nothing I couldn't have done...better. Here's a picture of the room. The thought of cracking any of the chestnut woodwork scared the absolute piss out of me.

Fred

An absolutely amazing home! I understand your reservations but some contractor will care a lot less about your home than you do. If you decide to open that ceiling, just take it slow and open the old patch job. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. It will give you more confidence for the next job that needs to be tackled.

jumper

Busting a ceiling is easy. Patching nicely is more difficult. Skilled plasterer breaks a piece of gyprock to fit,trowls some topcoat and then it's a job for a painter. I can't do it but I bet it wasn't easy for the plasterer the first time,either.

Koan

do you know if the prior plumber replaced a steel pipe with copper? I am seeing that happen for steam pipes and the solder joints just can't take the stress from high thermal expansion. And then there is the electrolysis problem with dissimilar metals.

wildrage

@Fred Thank you. I called the plumber this morning and he said he's going to come over this afternoon. In the mean-time, I set up my ladder and tarps in the area. If he doesn't show, I'm busting it open myself.

@jumper I agree. I've been in this house for almost 2 years, and I'm getting over it. I've done this stuff before in other houses, but the woodwork and plaster has been scaring the hell out of me. The bills i've been getting to fix things have been equally scary though, so I'm very close to taking the leap. It would be amazing watching someone plaster a house back in the day with horsehair, all by hand. Labor was cheap back then, and people knew what they were doing!

Either way, by this evening I'll have pics of the leak - whether the plumber opens it, or I do. I know I've been keeping you guys waiting for almost 2 days now!

wildrage

Koan said:

do you know if the prior plumber replaced a steel pipe with copper? I am seeing that happen for steam pipes and the solder joints just can't take the stress from high thermal expansion. And then there is the electrolysis problem with dissimilar metals.

I don't know. When I called the plumbers cell this morning he was on a job out of the area, so didn't get to talk much. I guess we'll see when the ceiling comes open this afternoon. The only thing I know is that it was a 'pinhole' leak. I'm almost certain that I'm going to see a failed patch there when we open up the ceiling...probably with a much bigger hole in the pipe.

Fred

@wildrage , good for you! We're all waiting to hear.

wildrage

@Fred @MilanD The plumber never showed. Time to roll up my sleeves and get to business....

Fred

You'll do fine. Just cut a 12" X 12" hole around that bubble and see what you have there.

MilanD

Yep. Have fun. And keep reminding yourself, it ain't rocket science. That's what I do every time I have to dig into something like this. Lol.

Jamie Hall

I've bee doing this sort of thing for years. Earn while you learn, or something. Never a dull moment... you'll do just fine!

MilanD

@wildrage , how's it going with the leaky riser?

Fred

I hope he didn't drown. Come on @wildrage , give us an update.

New England SteamWorks

Fred said:

@wildrage , absolutely beautiful home. I am a Preservationist, by nature. I have been the Chairperson of the Landmarks Commission for the City I live in for over 20 years now and I live in one of our 14 Historic Districts. This is my home, which I lovingly restored some 26 years ago:

You've been holding out Fred! I knew about that radiator under the bench, but this is too much!

Fred

@New England SteamWorks Thanks!

Fred

@SeanBeans , what did you disagree with on my post above??
"I hope he didn't drown. Come on @wildrage , give us an update. "

Canucker

> @Fred said:
> @SeanBeans , what did you disagree with on my post above??
> "I hope he didn't drown. Come on @wildrage , give us an update. "

I'll bet he's using a phone to access the site. I find the disagree button sits right where my thumb goes when I want to scroll the page @Fred

SeanBeans

I am using the mobile site. i get crazy pop ups from Amazon and other sites lately. anyone else?

MilanD

> @SeanBeans said:
> I am using the mobile site. i get crazy pop ups from Amazon and other sites lately. anyone else?

Nope. You must have installed some apps that then allowed pop ups. Get chrome or opera mini browsers for mobile. Don't use whatever was default with the phone.

Btw, scroll on up and "un-dislike" Fred's post... I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

Sailah

SeanBeans said:

I am using the mobile site. i get crazy pop ups from Amazon and other sites lately. anyone else?

I get those on my phone. Kinda spammy, like you've won $1000 gift card or if you don't call this number your phone will be locked forever. I just reopen Chrome and it goes away. Only happens on Heating Help, no other site.

BTW @Fred your house is amazing!!

jumper

Fred said:

You'll do fine. Just cut a 12" X 12" hole around that bubble and see what you have there.

First poke a hole to drain the water.

Fred

Thanks @Sailah

wildrage

@Fred , @jumper , @MilanD , @Jamie Hall

Haha sorry guys. The plumber kept on pushing off the appointment. I get it - they take 'no heat' calls as priority, and its the start of the heating season.

Here's your pipe porn (picture below).

For the previous repair, a coupling had been added (as you can see). The plumber first thought he just needed some pipe dope and had to re-tighten. We did that all, fired up the boiler, and still had a leak. Ended up the nipple was also jacked up, so he took care of that, and I'm now dry! Thanks for your help everyone. Next time, I'm doing this myself!

KC_Jones

That looks like a merchant coupling (thread protector), not a "real" coupling.

Fred

Thanks for the update @wildrage . You could have done that yourself, this time! Glad you got it done!

wildrage

Here's a better look at the coupling. I asked him how hard it would be to replace it to the riser, and he told me that there is a 'T' going up to the next radiator on the 3rd floor, and it could potentially be a 'pandoras box'.