Con artist

AMservices

Back in march, I replied to a request from who I thought was a legitimate contractor, looking for someone with steam experience. i love steam work and any chance I get to show how an old steam system can be as efficient, if not more, then any other options people might consider, I jump on it.
I went to see the job, met with the G.C. and the building manager. I explained what adding a vacuum pump to the system can do and everyone seemed interested.
I went back and forth with the G.C. on the pricing and options. He first beat me up on my price. I knew it could be done for what I was I this guy asked me to do it for. The only reason I agreed to take the job was because he made it sound like it was no problem asking for money.
I've always given a good pricing. I've never asked for more money. Maybe I wanted the chance more then money, so I took the job.
It took 3 weeks with almost no help, other then with the heavy lifting to get it going and start testing.
I relocated the condensate pump, replaced all the steam traps and TRV's, removed end of Main F&T'S for loop seals (the ones I knew about), ran a 10" chimney liner up 80' to replace the 18" b-vent stack, I added a oil free vacuum pump to assist the boiler removing the air, designed my own controls, 2 staged the gas valve, made a boiler feed system using the condensate pump and the MM-150 and much more.
2 days before completing, I was explaining to the building manger what the F&T'S do and he showed me 4 more I didn't know about that were hiding in the dumpster room and above ceilings in some back office space. I told him they could be a problem and it would be a change order to fix if steam short cycles back to the pump tripping the high limit before the system is filled, as I was unaware they were there. He agreed so I went ahead and tested the system and then.....
The boiler ran for 2 minutes before tripping the thermo switch on the vent hood from a lack of air in the basement.
It was easy to prove because all I had to do was open the back door to let more air in and I could keep the boiler running long enough to prove the F&T'S I didn't know about had faile. Just as I thought. steam was short cycling around the mains into the returns straight to my pump. That why I chose to replace the other f&t's with loop seals. The vacuum pump has the system filled so fast, I don't need to worry as much about venting the mains. One less expens when servicing.

Other than the lack of air and the old F&T'S, everything else worked beautifully.
The 2 stage burner did just what I wanted, the MM-150 maintained the water level perfectly after throttling the steam cox. When the con pump float was low, it killed power to the pump and activated the auto feed to top off the tank.
I didn't want to run the system to long with steam floating around in the returns to prevent damage to the new steam traps I put in, so I stopped testing.
Now I was sub contractor on this job. So I couldn't get more money from the building directly. The day I was testing I was able to show the building manger the new problems I found. He understood everything I was saying and could see for himself what was going on. The old boiler was burning 400,000 BTU'S, 100K more then the new one, but because the old boiler didn't have a thermo switch on it vent hood, it had know way to shut off.
And then the next day the G.C. asked if I was done. when I explained the new problems, he told me I was lying, that there was plenty of air and I was fishing for more money. I could ether finish the job or get the "F" off and he would find someone to finish it. I told him to go ahead and try. I said "you set me up for failure by promising me more money would be there if anything came up, I can prove these are real problems" That's when he fired me and said I wasn't allowed back on the property. After hearing his immediate reaction I knew he never had any intention of paying me.
He didn't know I already talked it over with the building manager and it wouldn't have been a problem getting more money for the extra work. I've never had a problem working with contractors or home owners
(Not like this). Something else was going on.
As soon as the GC told me to I couldn't go back, I called the building manager to tell him what happened. He couldn't understand why this guy would fire me over something I could prove was a problem.
Couldn't figure out what was going on, so I started looking into this GC. Turns out the GC Is a CA ( CON ARTIST).
All info I have on this G.C. C.A. is B.S.
Business name, address even his own name is fake.
I shared all this information with the building manager and the response I got has me thinking one of 3 things
1.They paid the C.A. more money then what I'm owed
2. The building manager is worried about his job
3. He's in on it.
I really don't know what to think. I do know that winter will eventually come and unless their keeping the back door open all winter, that boiler not going to run.
If their thinking they can hire any old toilet technician to come and slap a fan in a can on my boiler, it won't be that straight forward for them. If the F&T's don't get fix, good by steam traps and the vacuum pump will never work right.

This is not the thread I thought I would be writing. I'm writing this because I know everything I did works and I don't won't people to think I didn't continue my last thread because I couldn't get the system going. I got it going and if I was dealing with real people everything would have been done weeks ago. I'm more bitter about losing the system then getting paid.
Money isn't everything. When you put so much care and planning into designing a new style vacuum steam system and it's taken away right when you get it started.
It's like running a marathon and some gas pipes you just before the Finnish line.
What's a guy to do?
Lawyer up, hope for the best and wait is about all I can do.

gerry gill

i tend to run from most general contractors. Did a job for a new one recently, the scumbag waits until i sent him the bill to send me a bunch of paperwork to fill out, including a sub contractor agreement which i have to sign to get paid..after i've done the job...there are good gc's out there...but not many..

AMservices

Thanks @gerry gill, I'm a big fan of your work.

gerry gill

i like your work too...its even better when you actually get paid for it..so whats your plan? thats alot of money sitting out there..

JUGHNE

I would lawyer up quickly. There is sometimes a short window of time that you can file a mechanics lien on the job.

I had a state job where they said it may take up to 90 days to get paid. My lawyer said that if I waited that 90 days and things went south, my lien time would have expired by then.
He recommended just filling the lien for every pay period in the event of that happening.......this varies state by state.

In some cases the GC does not get paid until all subs (you) sign a lien waiver stating you will not file a lien on the property.
That can become a stand off, GC will say he can not get paid to pay you until you sign off.......usually all goes well. But you now know the GC too well to trust him.

BobC

I'm sorry to see you get treated like that but there are people like him everywhere. I almost got nailed by someone like that but I had the good fortune to be in just the right spot to see what was coming down the pike.

Twenty four years ago I was working for a company that I had been with for 27 years, I started as a line tech and moved into engineering and then management. The year before this event happened the company was taken over by a new owner who we all hoped would give us all a bright future. I was wrong, we were now in the thrall of a Bernie Maddoff.

The incident happened when I was tasked with making some changes to the buildings electrical distribution. I studied the problem and decided what had to be done and went looking for a contractor. As it turns out a coworkers son in law was a licensed electrician who was looking for some work, that meant the work could be done quickly and for a good price.

I explained what had to be done and drew up a contract with him to do the work. The work was done in a week and was all i asked for. When I went to the company controller with the bill I was told I'd have to see the CEO. I talked to the CEO and he told me they could not spare the cash right now and I told him the reason we had gotten such a good price was that we promised payment in ten days - they were aware of the conditions beforehand.

I had seen some signs of things like this but was not privy to what was behind them. Since I had given the man my word I paid him out of my own funds and went to the CEO and told him the debt was now mine and I expected to be paid within one week.

He began to object and I reminded him that I complete backups of all the company computers at my house and would use them to build a case against them. He also knew I was the only person in the building who could accomplish certain vital procedures to keep the production line running.

The CEO scowled at me and promised me a check the next day, when I got the check I deposited it posthaste. Senior management was a little cool to me for the next month but there was nothing they could do. The company was shuttered a month later and a hundred people were thrown out of work but thats what happens when you spend money to make things look good and not for improving production so product could be shipped faster. The senior management team moved whatever wasn't locked down out of state and tried to set up business in another state.

I know a few people who lost their homes over this and one man was bankrupted when the hospital told him he owed tens of thousands for open heart surgery because they had cancelled our health insurance without telling anybody. They left the state with a half million dollar grant they had receives from the state for saving jobs!! The new operation foundered less than a year after the plants closing.

About three months after they decamped to the other state I got a call that they had tried to restore my backups but because the didn't know how to do it the restored them all to the same directory and were left with a complete mishmash of data that was USELESS. The CEO asked If I still had my copies and I said yes I do and they are in pristine condition, i laughed and hung the phone up.

That data allowed one access to all the information to build all the equipment that had been manufactured over the years; drawings, parts lists, specs, and test procedures.Myself and another engineer used that data to set up a small company where we repaired the equipment the old company had been selling to the military for 35 years and we even produced new ones for the navy and the CIA, that kept a few of us busy for almost a decade.

I later found out one of my fellow managers told the new company president they made a grave mistake when they crossed me because I knew where all the bodies were buried and had access to every bit of information the company possessed. He ended working for Intel out on the west coast.

I hope you nail their hide to the wall.

Bob

Paul48

Your story has been told many times on this site. The characters and details are different. It's always a homeowner and an unscrupulous contractor. Like you, after the --it hits the fan, they start looking at the contractors record and find out the horrible truth. It's a sad state of affairs but I guess you have to vet GC's before you agree to take on a job. I hope everything works out for you.

AMservices

One of my rules in contracting is I don't install your system with my money. If you can't pay for the system, how are you going to pay me. I did get enough up front to cover 95% of what you see in the picture. I lost more time than money. When them money first ran out I asked the c.a. for a portion of my final payment. That was the the first time he told me to "F" off and finish the job. I was so close I didn't want to be the one to break the contract. I did what I had to do.
I've explored the mechanics lien and that's what I'll do if I don't get anything by july. The risk I take doing that is if the building already gave the c.a. my money, I'd have to go after him for it. And the problem with that is I don't know who he is. That means I would have to pay thousands for a lawyer, just to find out I'm not getting paid.
My blood boils thinking about it, faster then water in a vacuum.

BobC

Maybe a mechanics lien, if that can be placed against a job site rather than an individual?

i was lucky because i had all the information it would take to drag the whole rotten structure down and the knew it. Do some digging and see if you can unearth more information before you drag in the blood suckers.

God Bless, i wish you success in your efforts.

Bob

Ironman

IDK about your state, but in VA it's felony if a g.c. gets paid for work that a sub did and then doesn't pay him. That puts it into the hands of the police to investigate once charges are filed.

j a_2

Sounds like you had the best of intentions...However, talking with anyone except the guy paying you is generally not a good idea...in your case that would be the GC....You should have gotten everything in writing....Personally I avoided G C guys like the plague....It can get real ugly real fast with situations as yours..If you have all your ducks lined up then go after him...for payment...If not then proceed with caution....jmo

nicholas bonham-carter

What sort of contract did you have?
The mechanics lien goes against the property, and not the general contractor.
Were any thoughts given to combustion air needs in the contract?
--NBC

JUGHNE

The lien would be most effective if the owner/property manager is served before the GC gets paid.

How about permits/inspections?

In my church, an insurance boiler inspector just wrote up a long existing boiler room for lack of comb air. This report went to the State boiler inspector and had to be corrected before boiler license
was renewed.

Harvey Ramer

I never understood why someone would choose the unhappy life of a scoundrel over the good life.

ChrisJ

Harvey Ramer said:

I never understood why someone would choose the unhappy life of a scoundrel over the good life.

I've watched many people work harder at hiding and trying not to do work, then they would at actually just doing their job.

Same thing I guess.

NY_Rob

Harvey Ramer said:

I never understood why someone would choose the unhappy life of a scoundrel over the good life.

You can take solace in the fact that in many cases their lifetime of misdeeds does in fact come back to bite them in the ****. They frequently end up in jail... or worse once they cross the wrong person. Sometimes it's just a matter of time till they get what they deserve

ratio

Hey, that boiler piping looks beautiful. I've not (yet) had an opportunity to pipe a steamer, but when I do I hope I can post pictures like yours.

AMservices

I do a lot of work with G.C.'s, in residential. More then 50% of the work I get is through good contractors.
I didn't talk money with the building manager until I knew I had nothing to lose.
When I first looked at the job, i pointed out that the vent was way over sized and the city inspector would almost certainly call us out if we didn't replace. The lack of air was surprising to me because the basement is open to the rest of the building, a 200,000 BTU water heater was connected to the same chimney and I had a hard wired co detector within 4' of the 2 vents.

I finally got real information on the career con artists.
The building manager sent me the w-9 he was using. Another electronic signature with no connection to any name he's given.
It lead me to another business name with an expired construction license. Tied to this losers name and the same address I got from having his vans licence plate run. He has a long history of scamming people and companies.
He took 68K from a an old couple and was stealing electronic from Dell, making false warranty claims. Dell sent him new electronic's, he sent back a box of rocks.
One of his company bank accounts was labeled "rip you da phack off"
This guy is something else.
I should have enough info now to have him put back in jail.
Might just guy some Justice after all.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Find the toughest lawyer you can and be aggressive immediately.

And yes, guaranteed the building manager is in on it. Good cop, bad cop there in it together.

j a_2

NY_Rob said:

Harvey Ramer said:

I never understood why someone would choose the unhappy life of a scoundrel over the good life.

You can take solace in the fact that in many cases their lifetime of misdeeds does in fact come back to bite them in the ****. They frequently end up in jail... or worse once they cross the wrong person. Sometimes it's just a matter of time till they get what they deserve

Thinking it's time for legal help, not heating help....

Zman

Here is my guess. The building manager got conned as well. At the moment, it is easier for him to short change you than it is to confess this to his boss(s).

The first thing I would do is figure out who the owner is. If it a single company, set up a meeting with the president.
It sounds like it might be a home owners association, if so, contact the board president.

Once you make contact with them, let them know exactly what happened. Give them the history on the GC and your notes with all the times and dates.Explain to them that you are wanting to settle this amicably but will be forced to go down a legal route if needed.

I'll bet anything that the owner does not know about any of this. If they get hit with an intent to lien and are blind sided, they are likely to get defensive. I would try the passive nice guy route first. If possible, you want to tell your side if this to the owner before the manager gets wind of it and spins his own defense. You want to blind side the manager and be nice to the owner.

ChrisJ

This is why honest good people can't stay in business.

jumper

Problem with being a sub is that your agreement is with who hired you. So a lien against property is ???

Monkey business is an old story. You see GC subbing out to somebody that also subs job out subsequently. Then it's the owner who can get shafted. He just wants the job done properly. But the sub's sub can't do it for what he was talked into. Not after both GC and first sub takes their skim of the top.

Another story is when somebody agrees to too low a price and then tries to do you a favor by "giving" you the "opportunity".

One way to protect oneself somewhat is to have building owner order the equipment to be installed.

PMJ

ChrisJ said:

This is why honest good people can't stay in business.

My take would be more that honest good people stay in business by having many more successful transactions than unsuccessful ones. Things can go south on you from your fault, the other party's fault, and sometimes even no one's fault. I have always thought about it like contact sports - it is rough out there and you are going to get bruised up some and lose some games. I accept that when I go out on the field there are folks out there that don't play by the rules and that my team will lose to them ...sometimes. I try to avoid them but it isn't always possible. I will fight for my side always and stretch the rules my way to combat the cheaters as best I can. I accept that I am not going to win every time. The only way not to ever have any bruises or never suffer a big loss out there is to not go out on the field at all. Lots of people make that choice and that's fine too. They work for someone who takes all the big lumps (and scores the big gains). Nothing wrong with choosing to stay on the sidelines. Though often tough I wouldn't trade having spent my time in the game and on the field - lumps and all.

Zman

"Problem with being a sub is that your agreement is with who hired you. So a lien against property is???"

It varies State to State. In Colorado, "Mechanic's Liens" are designed to protect the subs from this kind of nonsense. The sub files an "Intent" and the the lien against the property itself, so the owner is immediately notified.
It sounds like you may lack the documentation to make it stick but sure is a good attention getter.

AMservices

I can honestly say I have never lost money on the job until this one. There been times where I haven't made exactly what I wanted to make, but I'm sure every contractor out there can say the same thing.
The business mistake I made here was thinking about the system and what I could do with it, more than the profit at the end.
My goal was making an affordable vapor vacuum steam system and showing how easily Any steam heating system could be converted.
My long term goal is to be installing all new steam systems from scratch. Showing people how to be comfortable, while being efficient with a long lasting, reliable heating system.

I'll let you know what happens, good or bad.
Thanks for sharing your experience

AMservices

Mass does protect the sub. I talked with more then one lawyer and even though the contract is "S", It was real work I did for the building.
A mechanics lien won't help if the building can prove that they paid everything to the c.a.
In that case I would have to sue the c.a.
That would mean I screwed.
Unless the building can't find someone to get the boiler working before winter.
The boiler is primarily serving the restaurant in the building.
There rent is more then what I'm owed.

j a_2

ChrisJ said:

This is why honest good people can't stay in business.

There are a lot of good honest people in business....You can find a lot of them,right here ,as well as locally....Pretty sure there are a lot of old guys on this site who have been in business a long time,HONESTLY....

ChrisJ

j a said:

ChrisJ said:

This is why honest good people can't stay in business.

There are a lot of good honest people in business....You can find a lot of them,right here ,as well as locally....Pretty sure there are a lot of old guys on this site who have been in business a long time,HONESTLY....

You sure said "a lot" a lot.

I know of a few. Very few, in the grand scheme of things. And they often struggle because of people under bidding them etc.

j a_2

Under bidders are, the ones that generally have a full time job, and do it on the side,for extra money....Or the new guy trying to establish his business....So once again I disagree with your generalizing contractors,as dishonest, a lot, a real lot

ChrisJ

Deleted my comment.

No reason to continue this.

@AMservices Any progress?

j a_2

Nope I am saying I disagree with your statement about honest guys can't stay in business, a lot.....Generalizing, contractors on a mostly contractors site is not really the best thing to do....But I understand everyone is intitled to his opinion, Try yelp, or Angie's list that's where a lot of homeowners go to post for there half of the story.

j a_2

ChrisJ said:

Deleted my comment.

No reason to continue this.

@AMservices Any progress?

AMservices

Not enough to talk about. I wish I had good news to report but as of right now I'm kind of in limbo waiting on other people

Charlie from wmass

@ja good thing you are retired these past few years. You can relax and quit worrying about who bids what.

j a_2

Yes you are correct, if your ever in the south side of Boston let me know, we can have a coffee.....