Debate on terminology

Charlie from wmass

Is it a furnace or a boiler ?

hot_rod

Great question with many different answers.
To me the difference is the water or fluid that indicates boiler.

Or a tough old chicken

ChrisJ

And yet, air is a fluid by definition.

"Any substance that flows is considered a fluid. This includes such things as water, shampoo, sunscreen, and even honey. Although not necessarily obvious, even gases, such as air, can be classified as fluids."

Get over it Charles, a boiler can be called a furnace.

Danny Scully

Furnace heats air, boiler heats water.

ChrisJ

Let's throw up what started this argument.

I told Charles he was wrong, and used this as evidence to back up my argument.

CTOilHeat

In the field, that's easy. Boiler heats water/steam. Furnace heats air.

By definition a boiler can be considered a type of furnace according to Wikipedia.

"The furnace transfers heat to the living space of the building through an intermediary distribution system. If the distribution is through hot water (or other fluid) or through steam, then the furnace is more commonly called a boiler."

TomS

OK here is another one: I came across an old instruction book for a forced air furnace. Instead of calling it a furnace it was listed as a "Winter Air Conditioner". Why does air conditioner have to mean cooling?

Solid_Fuel_Man

You condition the air to what is a liveable and comfortable state. Meaning by adding or subtracting heat, and/or humidity....

Such as an outdoor wood furnace....beacuse it's unpressureized they call it a furnace. I call anything that heats water used for heating a space a boiler.

Splitting hairs...must be board.

bob_46

I'll bet I can piss further (farther?) than youse guys. At least we all learnt (learned?) something about heating. I'm confused.

ChrisJ

Wait until Charles sees my new signature.

Fred

ChrisJ said:

And yet, air is a fluid by definition.

"Any substance that flows is considered a fluid. This includes such things as water, shampoo, sunscreen, and even honey. Although not necessarily obvious, even gases, such as air, can be classified as fluids."

Get over it Charles, a boiler can be called a furnace.

Gases are "fluid" meaning they can have natural movement. They are not "Fluids" unless liquefied. Different definition of the term "fluid"

Gordy

Let's get both definitions out there.
boil·er
ˈboilər/
noun
a fuel-burning apparatus or container for heating water, in particular.
a household device providing a hot-water supply or serving a central heating system.
a tank for generating steam under pressure in a steam engine.

Charlie from wmass

How many of us were chided as apprentices if we called a hydronic central heater for a home or building a furnace? I was both by my father and teachers in code classes. And inspectors.

ChrisJ

Fred said:

ChrisJ said:

And yet, air is a fluid by definition.

"Any substance that flows is considered a fluid. This includes such things as water, shampoo, sunscreen, and even honey. Although not necessarily obvious, even gases, such as air, can be classified as fluids."

Get over it Charles, a boiler can be called a furnace.

Gases are "fluid" meaning they can have natural movement. They are not "Fluids" unless liquefied. Different definition of the term "fluid"

Sorry Fred, you don't get to make up definitions.






A gas is a fluid.

MilanD

I was a bit confused over this too. A lot of guys here call it a boiler if it's water or steam, and furnace if it's air. I guess today that's how it goes.

I was recently reading the old Audels Plumbers and Steam Fitters Guide (from 1925), and in it there is a 'furnace' listed as a part of the heating apparatus where coal (or other fuel) burns to heat water in the boiler, or to heat air in gravity air heating apparatus. Heating apparatus is referred to as 'heating plant'.

So, per this book, the boiler is a vessel that holds the liquid, and furnace is the part of the heating apparatus where the fire is burning. Today, the part of the apparatus where fire is burning is referred to as a 'burner', and there is also 'fire box', for the area that's not technically the burner itself.

Jamie Hall

I call mine Cedric and don't worry about it... He responds just fine to that.

ChrisJ

Jamie Hall said:

I call mine Cedric and don't worry about it... He responds just fine to that.

What about Bernice?

Bernice, the Fernice.................

KC_Jones

You are all wrong, it's a hot water heater not a boiler or furnace.

ChrisJ

KC_Jones said:

You are all wrong, it's a hot water heater not a boiler or furnace.

The origins of the debate.

KC_Jones

ChrisJ said:

KC_Jones said:

You are all wrong, it's a hot water heater not a boiler or furnace.

The origins of the debate.

Really? I had no idea.

Rich_49

ChrisJ said:

Let's throw up what started this argument.

I told Charles he was wrong, and used this as evidence to back up my argument.

All this proves is that some who write definitions in dictionaries can also be uninformed . Here's my question Chris J , ready ?

At what temperature does air boil ?

Qing

Rich said:

At what temperature does air boil ?

-320.4° F. (presuming nitrogen)

ChrisJ

Rich said:

ChrisJ said:

Let's throw up what started this argument.

I told Charles he was wrong, and used this as evidence to back up my argument.

All this proves is that some who write definitions in dictionaries can also be uninformed . Here's my question Chris J , ready ?

At what temperature does air boil ?

Which part of it and at what pressure?

Let's go start Nitrogen since air is mostly Nitrogen.
-320.4°F at 14.7 PSIA.

Oxygen −361.82°F at 14.7 PSIA.

Water : 212°F at 14.7 PSIA.

Carbon Dioxide : −109.3 °F at 14.7 PSIA

Any other questions @Rich ?

gschallert

LOL! Since a furnace is "an enclosed structure in which heat is produced" yes a boiler is also a furnace. Just like a pellet or wood stove can be a furnace. For whatever reason many in the HVAC industry shorthand the general high level classification term ("furnace") for a forced air heating system yet still refer to other furnace types by their specific operating function, doesn't make them any less a furnace than the forced air units. A Chevy Silverado is a truck but it's also still an automobile. ;-)

https://www.furnacecompare.com/faq/definitions/furnace_types.html

AMservices

I hear "furnace" and think warm air. I hear "boiler" and think forced hot water or Steam.
I don't know what to call this from NTI
" hermaphrodite"?
https://www.ntiboilers.com/nti-products/GF200.html

Charlie from wmass

No a Ford super duty is a truck. The Chevy is a car with a very large open trunk

Gordy

I wonder what the engine room crew on the USS Missouri would have done to someone asking where is the furnace on this ship?......

Gordy

I will also look forward to @chrisj using the term furnace in all future discussions he participates in.

Jamie Hall

Charlie from wmass said:

No a Ford super duty is a truck. The Chevy is a car with a very large open trunk

Now wait a minute here...

Rich_49

ChrisJ said:

Rich said:

ChrisJ said:

Let's throw up what started this argument.

I told Charles he was wrong, and used this as evidence to back up my argument.

All this proves is that some who write definitions in dictionaries can also be uninformed . Here's my question Chris J , ready ?

At what temperature does air boil ?

Which part of it and at what pressure?

Let's go start Nitrogen since air is mostly Nitrogen.
-320.4°F at 14.7 PSIA.

Oxygen −361.82°F at 14.7 PSIA.

Water : 212°F at 14.7 PSIA.

Carbon Dioxide : −109.3 °F at 14.7 PSIA

Any other questions @Rich ?

No , no other questions . It appears that only water requires a boiler since everything else you mentioned is apparently already boiling and requires no mechanical assistance . All we have to do is get the others mentioned to PSIAbsolute .

Paul48

It's OK...........Kids today can call it a dog, and still get an "A" on the test. You know....One plus one is around three. Evidently, the knowledge passed down by generations of plumbers was wrong. My father and grandfather must be doing flip-flops.

ChrisJ

It's ok.
Everyone on here says "hot water boiler" even though that would really be a very bad situation.

It's not a hot water boiler, it's a hot water heater.

The only actual boiler, is a steam boiler.

Paul48

Or a steam furnace. In case you want to smelt the water.

JUGHNE

So it appears that the heating business has slowed down a little, regardless of the fluids involved.
I asked my wife to define a fluid, she could only cite liquids as fluids as she is a med tech at the hospital lab. They never analyze gases, only body fluids, which having 4 family members in that business, becomes conversation at holiday dinners ....now with a new one in the funeral director business has introduced a new fluid that being for embalming, (yes, that is a liquid).

So that being said; I always try to explain pressure/boiling points to others by what happens to the human body of it is suddenly placed into a near perfect vacuum....just think of the si-fi movies of this ending in outer space....people always remember that scene.

So 2 weeks ago we were in Huntsville, AL at the space museum.
It is a great place to visit. We were walking the length of the Saturn V rocket that is laying down inside the building. Now you talk about a fuel burner and this takes first place. I overheard a docent answering a question posed by a 30something lady. She wondered what happens if you take you helmet of in outer space. He was very tactfully trying to tell her you would run out of oxygen and quickly suffocate. She seem unsure of that answer so I volunteered my input. I said that in that vacuum your blood would boil and expand tremendously, perhaps by a factor of 1600x and your head would probably pop like a large zit. They both seemed aghast at this suggestion.
Now my wife tells me that I am never very tactful nor PC when saying statements like that.....however am I far from the truth??

Paul48

@ChrisJ
Not that you would want to, or that it would be safe, but I believe that any boiler can make steam.

HVACNUT

When will then be now?

Charlie from wmass

I can get you talking, can't I?

Zman

For those civilians out there who are totally confused by this nonsensical thread.

If you want to sound like you know what you are talking about and live in North America :
A boiler heats water or other liquid usually to be distributed around for space heat. Boilers can actually boil the water ( steam boiler) but most do not. Industrial boilers don't necessarily heat space but are still boilers.

Hot water heaters usually heat domestic hot water.

Most furnaces heat air to be distributed around for space heat. Again industrial furnaces are different, they can melt steel and still be a furnace.

Ok, now back to the show!

Charlie from wmass

How many times have the civilians been corrected on this wall for calling a boiler a furnace?

ChrisJ

Charlie from wmass said:

How many times have the civilians been corrected on this wall for calling a boiler a furnace?

Civilians?
Has Heatinghelp gone military?

ScottSecor

Just to add to the confusion, I always found it odd that manufacturers called part of scotch marine boilers the furnace.