Help

Rina

My father passed away unexpectedly and I am living in his house with an ancient furnace.
There are radiators/steam heat, I believe.
There is a guage that is like a test tube which usually has water in it. Now it is empty and it's getting colder by the minute. What am I supposed to do?
I know I sound stupid and insane but I need help!

Rina

According to something I read here, I am not supposed to let the water level get too low. How do I prevent that?

kcopp

You need to add water to the boiler. Can you find the valve where you can add some water to the system? Add just enough water so that its about 1/2 way in the glass....then turn off the water.

MilanD

EDITED::

Sometimes there may be a few minutes before all the condensate comes back between cycles. If that is not happeneing and water does not come back after 10 minutes, do what kcopp suggested. Do not however, under any circumastance, fill an empty and HOT boiler. This can explode the boiler and kill you. In that case, wait for the boiler to cool off completely before adding water. Boiler should, if operating properly, cut off the burners well before this happened. This being an old system and you not being familiar with it, best not risk it. If the water is so low and the boiler is still firing, turn it off and rough it for a few hours until the boiler cools. Then, add water as explained above.

Then, if it seems it's losing a lot of water on a daily basis, call technician to check out the system.

EDIT: There are some weekly blowdowns that need to be happening in order to release any gunk the system collects. Depending on the system, there may be a condensate pump and a some kind of float switch attached to one of such pumps. If you have one, this may be stuck and is not functioning, thus the low water issue. If you are not comfortable to service this (has to be unbolted/ removed and cleaned out), call 24 hvac people for help.

So, see what's happening and if above helps, call in a technician after system is again firing. If it's daytime, you can use "find a contractor" section here to find one who knows what they are doing. If it's an emergency at night, google and call down the list.

MilanD

Just make sure who ever you call knows steam.

ChrisJ

Please post some pictures of the boiler and the piping around it.
We will be able to tell you exactly what valve to open to add water etc.

Rina

I'm trying but its not working.

adambnyc

The very top valve in your picture. Turn that slowly into a cool boiler to fill it. Like everyone said, fill the boiler until the water fills the site glass half full.

ChrisJ

Ok,

To add water, open this valve (green arrow pointing to it) slowly, don't open it much, just crack it so you can hear water running.

ChrisJ

This is also VERY IMPORTANT.

After you've got 1/2 of the gauge glass full of water or so, which, judging by the size of the boiler is going to take quite a while, Turn this valve (red arrow) and dump water out into a bucket. Do it a few times until it runs clean.

You must do this once a week as it ensures the low water cutoff is functioning. The LWCO, or low water cutoff turns the burner off if the water level gets too low. You should do this with the burner running to make sure the burner shuts off while you're dumping water.

Fred

Make sure the valves at the top and bottom of that sight glass stays fully open at all times, except for when you might want to take the glass off to clean it or replace it.

GW

Do all trades have this level of help to the general public or just heat guys? Wow
Merry Christmas to all

Rina

Thank you Everyone, SO MUCH!
FYI- Apparently, I accidentally turned the correct knob before I went to bed just enough that it filled, a little too much, I'm guessing. The Guage is full now and the water valve is closed. I tapped on that black thing this morning and it fired right up. My house is toasty warm. I knew to drain the rusty water but that was about it. If anyone knows a furnace guy in Southwest Michigan, I will likely need more help in the future and some furnace maintenance in the spring.

Tim McElwain

Please take some pictures of the burner system?

Fred

When you say "I tapped on that black thing this morning and it fired right up. " you mean you tapped on the side of the Low water cut-off (the black unit next to the glass water sight glass)? That's a very good indication that the float chamber in the black unit is caked up with crud and needs to be taken apart and cleaned so the float, inside can move freely. That is an important part of the boiler safety design and it needs attention.
OR
You tapped on the Pressuretrol (box mounted on top of the pigtail (looped pipe)) and the boiler starts? If that's the "black thing" , then the Pressuretrol needs to be checked or the Looped pipe is clogged and needs to be removed and cleaned.

Rina

I tapped on the low water cut off. It also seems that the pressure Guage that you speak of isn't working. Thank you for your input.

Tim McElwain

Is this system using a powerpile self generating system? If so tapping on controls can get it to work but not necessarily have you solved the problem. Powerpile systems are susceptible to losing millivolts through wires, splices and connections on controls. Tapping the controls will then cause it to come on and run but it will fail again later. It needs someone who understands how to take millivolt readings and has the ability to diagnose the problem based on those readings.

Steamhead

A couple things:

First, your heating unit is called a "Boiler". The word "furnace" describes the heating unit in a hot air system. That type of system reminds me of a politician: a lot of hot air and noise, without much effect. Steam is about the best you can get.

Your boiler was undoubtedly fired by coal originally, and later converted to gas. Do take some pictures of the burner (sticking out of the bottom of the front of the boiler) so Tim can see it- he's been around for a loooong time and probably has some information on it. Boilers like this can't match the efficiency of newer ones, so you might look at getting it replaced.

This site has a Find a Contractor page- the only one listed in Michigan is here:

https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/c-t-janni-and-associates

Let us know how you make out.

Rina

Not home right now. Will add more photos tomorrow. I'm learning a lot.! Thank you all!

Rina

Sorry I'm lacks in responding.... I discovered the reason why boiler was void of water. It leaked out of a radiator pipe and flooded an unused bedroom floor/carpet, leaked through and destroyed my living room ceiling. I've been busy.

Jamie Hall

Rina said:

Sorry I'm lacks in responding.... I discovered the reason why boiler was void of water. It leaked out of a radiator pipe and flooded an unused bedroom floor/carpet, leaked through and destroyed my living room ceiling. I've been busy.

Oh dear. That can be a real mess. I'm sorry for you!

MilanD

> @Rina said:
> Sorry I'm lacks in responding.... I discovered the reason why boiler was void of water. It leaked out of a radiator pipe and flooded an unused bedroom floor/carpet, leaked through and destroyed my living room ceiling. I've been busy.

Ugh... Good luck. I hope you have a good insurance policy... Small drips over long time can make for a mess, that's for sure.

KC_Jones

Wait a minute here. This is a steam system. In order to have a water leak at a radiator of that magnitude you would have had a sauna in your house. Heck I would venture a guess it would have been "cloudy". To have that much steam condense and then leak at a radiator to cause that level of damage would have had to have been massive.

If it did indeed leak that badly and run the boiler dry/low that means the LWCO didn't function correctly.

Where are you located? We may know a pro in your area to come and look and tune the system up. Seriously not to scare you, but a LWCO that isn't functioning completely right and a boiler that has been run out of water are the things that make the 6 o'clock news when the house blows up. This isn't a joke.

It may be no big deal or it may not, you really should get this looked at by a steam expert. Let me reiterate steam expert, not someone that "does boilers".

Fred

@KC_Jones , I'm guessing there was a leak in the supply pipe, under the floor, between the second floor and the first floor ceiling but only the OP can answer that question.

Gordy

Pics indicate steam boiler.

She did say radiator "pipe". Condensate pipe hidden I assume.

Other issues were pointed out .

MilanD

I had, at work, a 10x10 ft section of plaster ceiling collapse after years of undetected slow condensate leak in the 1-pipe steam rad riser pipe between the floors. Small enough to go undetected, over time, weakened the plaster and, boom down the ceiling went. In this case, unused room, carpet, hidden leak - I can see it clearly in my mind.

Rina

According to a previous comment, the only Pro in Michigan is 3 hours from me. I am in Southwest Michigan. The leak was in the pipe that was exiting the radiator. It was also hidden in the back of a closet behind boxes of things in a room that goes unused. I turned the radiator on 2 weeks ago and came back a day later to find that the room was an oven. I turned it mostly off. A few days later my heat went off and I discovered that my boiler was out of water. It's true, I know next to nothing about this type of heating unit. But I have learned a lot the last week or so.

Rina

I discovered the problem because I walked into the room and my socks got wet. The carpet padding was soaked. There was no damage in the living room a couple of days earlier. Now there's an eight-foot crack, stains, etc.

Gordy

I think I would move anything of value from under that ceiling.....

Rina

Yes. Did that immediately it when I discovered it on Christmas Eve and put a tarp down. People have already been here for two days with dehumidifiers and dryers. Tore out the carpet padding and cut out a chunk of the ceiling. Just waiting for some plumber to call me back.

MilanD

Definitely sucks... rip carpet and padding out asap if you haven't already, and get some dehumidifiers and large capacity fans on it asap - if using insurance, they can send pros for flood damage remediation. Def use insurance if you have it. Otherwise, you can rent equipment from a tool rental place.

So this was out of the pipe and not waterlogged rad vent (you wrote you dialed down the rad valve when it was too hot)? I've seen a stuck vent and closed-off valve cause 6tf "old glory" fountain out of the rad vent with each pressure rise. Floods a room in no time.

I'm sorry this has happened.

MilanD

Oh, response time-delay from me. Good - you did all of it.

Ironman

Where are you in SW Michigan? We may know someone who's not on the contractor locator.

Rina

Paw Paw, near Kalamazoo

Ironman

Paw Paw? That's what my grandkids call me.

Let's see if someone chimes in that can help.

Mark Eatherton

Is that anywhere near Falmouth? Steve Ebels would be a good choice if it is.

ME

Rina

It's only 146 miles away. But thank you.

Pumpguy

You might try Myers Plumbing and Heating in Lansing, MI.

Phone 517 202 4945.

Good luck.

Rina

Hi Guys!
The water guage is less than half full when the boiler is running. It warmed up around here so I lowered the thermostat to keep it off over night so I could add more water. This morning the guage lever is exactly in the middle. I opened the water to add some but I don't hear any water "trickling" as was recommended earlier. I left it open for 10 minutes but the water leven(according to the guage) has not moved.
Am I doing something wrong? Does it not need more water?

Fred

It is very possible that you are actually adding water to the boiler but the tappings that feed into the Sight glass is clogged and not showing the real water level in the glass. You really need to have that boiler cleaned and fully maintained, for you own safety.

JUGHNE

Flush the LWCO (Red arrow valve) and watch the level in the sight glass. It should bounce up and down as you open and close the red arrow valve.
This lets you know that your small valves above and below the sight glass are fully open and not plugged.

You want to be able to confirm the level in the sight glass and that it moves with the flushing....(it may bounce some with firing also).

It is easy to mistake a completely full sight glass for an empty one and visa versa. This is a very important visual aid for boiler operation.

If your manual fill valve (Green arrow valve) is not passing water into the boiler then there may be a blockage in the fill line. (Probably between the fill valve and the boiler inlet of the fill pipe)
You want to be sure not leave it unattended when open even if you hear no water running.......it may decide to unplug itself anytime. Back to the importance of the sight glass functioning.

You want to be sure of the water level before firing the boiler again!