Labor Shortage?

SWEI

Speaking of Vanguard, John Bogle's Enough is another good read.

4Johnpipe

For all that's said and done...there's more said than done.

GreenGene

BobC

are you really asking them to read? do some research? check out history?

all they have to do is turn on hate radio or faux tv and they'll tell them everything they want to hear along with some hate and put downs

gents, I respectfully submit to you that the truth is not always what YOU WANT TO HEAR

sometimes it sucks

the truth is both parties are corrupt and that includes the guy with the big mouth and the ridiculous $1200 comb over

GreenGene

and like I said, we do not have Capitalism so stop talking about it

and of course stock holders vote in favor of some CEO's stupid salary, are you serious?

although in my proxies I have voted NO

it's a good'ol boys club, that's all it is

used to be when companies did good work and that was how profit went up, even our hospitals are greed centers, especially the ones that claim to be non profits, that's just to skirt taxes and local property taxes and give to the CEO's

although in our trade things can be different, we've seen some companies go the route of greed and fold

Daiken for instance is going to mesh their superior technology with Goodman equipment and take over and possibly shut down some others

that is Capitalism

Gordy

We can all read. At what point is what you read reliable information. One authors perspective is no guarantee of factually correct information. What sells is drama, or babbling statistics. We all know statistics can portray good, and bad with the same information.

Paul48

For some reason, we are being portrayed as anti-American, or Socialists for speaking out against the way business is being conducted in this country. Speaking for myself only.....I want this country to return to the greatness that existed before we gave away our jobs. For those that look down their noses, at the plight of workers at the bottom.....answer this. Where will you be financially when the dollar collapses? This current system has us on that course. The mega-wealthy that survive that, will then look at you, and say," some people were just meant to serve".

Gordy

We ended all that Paul when the economy went global. There really is not an easy way to go back with out pain, and suffering. Look no farther than Britain getting out of the EU. Others will soon follow. It will be a choppy ride.

Paul48

None of that happened by chance. It was carefully choreographed by the mega-wealthy. It was stated, elsewhere that it wasn't the wealthy in England that voted to succeed from the EU. Of course not, it was those at the bottom that were being destroyed by belonging to it. Sound familiar? Britian will rise from the ashes...will we?

BobC

The disparity between the rich and poor has grown alarmingly over the last 30 years or so. Coupled with this is the hollowing out of the middle class because big business is moving any job that is not tied down to more favorable countries. Now this is perfectly legal but it's short sited. Once this works it's way through to whom are they going top sell their wares? Henry Ford understood he had to pay his workers enough so they could buy his cars.

Someone asked why I care if there is an imbalance between the pay levels of management and labor. Paying the very top management at these levels has nothing to do with their skill, it has to do with their connections to others in this "club" where they compete for who can bilk the company out of the most money. A few decades ago there was a guy named Al Dunlap who made a reputation by going into companies and making them lean and mean. He went is and downsized with a vengeance and took those savings and paid it to himself, waltzing out the door to go to the next victim. He was about as good a business man as Trump, hooray for me and to hell with anybody else unfortunate enough to try and deal with him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_J._Dunlap

Many of these folks are amoral and will do anything to further their own ends at the expense of the companies they "serve" and the nation. They trample over companies and move on before it keels over because of their "management" methods. I would like to see wall st move away from quarterly reports to something that emphasizes long term growth.

I fail to see why being concerned about the way things are going in this country is considered whining. We are going down the same rathole the soviets did as their country collapsed, anything of value is being concentrated among a small number of oligarchs who will abandon the ship when things are not in their favor.

Bob

Gordy

Henry Frick ring a bell Bob?

Paul48

Look at what we've lost, because of our politicians signing so-called Free Trade Agreements. We were the leader of the Global economy. We were the largest creditor nation in the world. The stock market reflected the state of our economy. Our businesses were highly successful. The products made here, were highly sought after, around the world. We had jobs, plenty of them, that paid well and provided good benefits.

So many patriots have died to get America to that point. It is absolutely criminal, what has been done, and continues to be done to this country. This is a great country, and those entrusted to care for it have betrayed that trust.

ChrisJ

Paul48 said:

Look at what we've lost, because of our politicians signing so-called Free Trade Agreements. We were the leader of the Global economy. We were the largest creditor nation in the world. The stock market reflected the state of our economy. Our businesses were highly successful. The products made here, were highly sought after, around the world. We had jobs, plenty of them, that paid well and provided good benefits.

So many patriots have died to get America to that point. It is absolutely criminal, what has been done, and continues to be done to this country. This is a great country, and those entrusted to care for it have betrayed that trust.

While I do agree with you overall, it wasn't just that.
For example look at the cars we were producing in the 1970s - 1980s.

Do you blame what took place in 1929 on free trade agreements as well?


Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like one side is doing everything they can to lower pay, lower and or eliminate benefits and eliminate unions, while the other side says you can have higher pay and benefits, but at the same time is shipping all of the work away.

What kind of choices are those!?

hot_rod

ChrisJ said:

Paul48 said:

Look at what we've lost, because of our politicians signing so-called Free Trade Agreements. We were the leader of the Global economy. We were the largest creditor nation in the world. The stock market reflected the state of our economy. Our businesses were highly successful. The products made here, were highly sought after, around the world. We had jobs, plenty of them, that paid well and provided good benefits.

So many patriots have died to get America to that point. It is absolutely criminal, what has been done, and continues to be done to this country. This is a great country, and those entrusted to care for it have betrayed that trust.

While I do agree with you overall, it wasn't just that.
For example look at the cars we were producing in the 1970s - 1980s.

Do you blame what took place in 1929 on free trade agreements as well?


Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like one side is doing everything they can to lower pay, lower and or eliminate benefits and eliminate unions, while the other side says you can have higher pay and benefits, but at the same time is shipping all of the work away.

What kind of choices are those!?

Some will say if you look at the states that have raised minimum wages and closed tax loop holes, essentially raising the tax on the wealthy, and cut spending, they have all climbed out of a deficit into a surplus. California and Minnesota for example.

Then look at the states that tried the opposite, like Kansas, with the largest tax cut in the history of the state.

I think it's time to give a minimum wage increases a try across all the states.

ChrisJ

hot rod said:

ChrisJ said:

Paul48 said:

Look at what we've lost, because of our politicians signing so-called Free Trade Agreements. We were the leader of the Global economy. We were the largest creditor nation in the world. The stock market reflected the state of our economy. Our businesses were highly successful. The products made here, were highly sought after, around the world. We had jobs, plenty of them, that paid well and provided good benefits.

So many patriots have died to get America to that point. It is absolutely criminal, what has been done, and continues to be done to this country. This is a great country, and those entrusted to care for it have betrayed that trust.

While I do agree with you overall, it wasn't just that.
For example look at the cars we were producing in the 1970s - 1980s.

Do you blame what took place in 1929 on free trade agreements as well?


Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like one side is doing everything they can to lower pay, lower and or eliminate benefits and eliminate unions, while the other side says you can have higher pay and benefits, but at the same time is shipping all of the work away.

What kind of choices are those!?

Some will say if you look at the states that have raised minimum wages and closed tax loop holes, essentially raising the tax on the wealthy, and cut spending, they have all climbed out of a deficit into a surplus. California and Minnesota for example.

Then look at the states that tried the opposite, like Kansas, with the largest tax cut in the history of the state.

I think it's time to give a minimum wage increases a try across all the states.

I agree, the minimum wage does need to go up, quite a bit.

However, what good will it do when what's left goes overseas?

hot_rod

polls show 76% want min wage increase, and 90% want some basic background checks, what can't politicians at least get this done?

ChrisJ

hot rod said:

polls show 76% want min wage increase, and 90% want some basic background checks, what can't politicians at least get this done?

76% and 90% of what?
People? We don't count.

Huge corporations count.

Me and you, we're nothing.

hot_rod

76% and 90% of what?
People? We don't count.

Huge corporations count.

Me and you, we're nothing.

But we do, or should, vote for these knuckleheads in congress.

njtommy

What's the game plain on raising min wage?

So the number seems to be $15 an hour that's more then most of us started out at in this trade. Most of us started making peanuts and progressed up from their. I know a lot of guys bust there butts to make over $20 or even $3O an hour and taking years todo it. Now it's boom here is a $7 raise for the same job you have been doing. Mostly likely won't make people work harder or make them feel appreciated. Because now that the new minimum. They have to be paid that by law.

It's going to get very interesting if or when all this goes down.

GreenGene

Well there's truth and spin doctors, too many people these days are easily suckered, I mean the population at hand, all you have to do is put it out there and chances are 40% will buy it without ever fact checking, which is astonishing because we have computers and can do a lot of research on our own.

If you look at youtube for instance, you'll find a stupid entry like boobies or man lights self on fire gets 4million hits, while a Neil Degrasse Tyson or Professor Michio Kaku gets a few thousand, propaganda about Obama or the myth of a liberal threat gets millions, people gravitate towards hate.

The biggest joke was when they said Obama was going to invade Texas, they had half the world freaking out, they even had Chuck Norris readying his ranch and practicing Kung Fu, I mean what the what people?? what the what?? invade Texas? a state we own and control??

it's 2016.............think it through

and follow the money

facts, search for and stick to the facts

maybe we need training in the public schools for that, Critical Thinking, I had it, doesn't seem they taught it after 1980 or something

look at people when it comes to Hillary and Trump, ready to kill each other over internet lies and rumors while both are terrible options, we should all be crying together and not fighting

hot_rod

$15.00 may be too big of jump for some states, CT, MD went to 10.10. Tie future increases to inflation.

They need to make some reach to the middle class workers. inflation.

Rich_49

@ChrisJ
"Do you blame what took place in 1929 on free trade agreements as well?"

No Chris . That was just plain , out and out market manipulation by a few wealthy Charlie Sierras to buy up huge parcels of land in cities and many prosperous businesses and make a huge profit after the dust settled which grew tyheir empires even bigger . A short and sweet bill was written and enacted that would prevent such a thing from ever happening again called Glass - Steagel Act .
https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking/glass-steagall-act-explained/
That bill was repealed in the 99 under Clinton . Exactly the time that all the banks started to merge again and put their hands where they were supposed to never be allowed again . Took all of 7-8 years for the damage to be done and it is nowhere near over . Buckle up for the pain and suffering are just beginning my friends.

It all happened while we did not discuss politics and were worried about political correctness . time to research what your duties as a citizen of this once great nation really are . Oh , by the way , Big Boy Pants will be required for the up and coming shenanigans .

קיינער קענען העלפן איר אָבער איר . Nobody can help you but you .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4wU9ZnAKAw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IJeemTQ7Vk

Paul48

Raising the minimum wage does nothing to fix the source of the problem.......Lack of Jobs. We are the laughing stocks of the world, for giving our jobs away. Some are saying we need to stock up on ammunition, for what is coming.

Rich_49

When the dollar collapses nothing will be as valuable as Gold , Silver , brass and lead . Those some I fear are correct . When the time comes make sure you don't offend anyone guys .

Does anyone find it odd that the main focus is to disarm the American public ? DHS and other government agencies buying ammunition to keep it out of our hands .

True story time . When I was a boy (7) we visited my great uncle Merrill ( Hatch , Colonel US army , CO of Ft Bragg ) He was at his Alexandria address ( Pentagon ) and my dad was bitching all the way back then ('72) about people coming here , blah , blah , blah and stated that we should enforce our borders and maintain a smaller number of immigrants to insure American jobs . Uncle Merrill calmly looked over his glasses and down his nose at my dad and stated " Richard , when these borders get locked down , and they will , it will not be to keep anyone out ". Uncle Merrill knew things apparently .

ChrisJ

Paul48 said:

Raising the minimum wage does nothing to fix the source of the problem.......Lack of Jobs. We are the laughing stocks of the world, for giving our jobs away. Some are saying we need to stock up on ammunition, for what is coming.

Who, in the world specifically is saying that?
Ammunition manufacturers?


I heard rumors that an HVAC manufacturer is saying you better stock up on capacitors, for what is coming.

Fred

ChrisJ said:

Paul48 said:

Raising the minimum wage does nothing to fix the source of the problem.......Lack of Jobs. We are the laughing stocks of the world, for giving our jobs away. Some are saying we need to stock up on ammunition, for what is coming.

Who, in the world specifically is saying that?
Ammunition manufacturers?


I heard rumors that an HVAC manufacturer is saying you better stock up on capacitors, for what is coming.

Sounds like something Trump would say (if he hasn't already).
Are we on the political thread?

Rich_49

Fred said:

ChrisJ said:

Paul48 said:

Raising the minimum wage does nothing to fix the source of the problem.......Lack of Jobs. We are the laughing stocks of the world, for giving our jobs away. Some are saying we need to stock up on ammunition, for what is coming.

Who, in the world specifically is saying that?
Ammunition manufacturers?


I heard rumors that an HVAC manufacturer is saying you better stock up on capacitors, for what is coming.

Sounds like something Trump would say (if he hasn't already).
Are we on the political thread?

As a matter of Fact , yes we are Fred .

Fred

Rich said:

Fred said:

ChrisJ said:

Paul48 said:

Raising the minimum wage does nothing to fix the source of the problem.......Lack of Jobs. We are the laughing stocks of the world, for giving our jobs away. Some are saying we need to stock up on ammunition, for what is coming.

Who, in the world specifically is saying that?
Ammunition manufacturers?


I heard rumors that an HVAC manufacturer is saying you better stock up on capacitors, for what is coming.

Sounds like something Trump would say (if he hasn't already).
Are we on the political thread?

As a matter of Fact , yes we are Fred .

Just checking @Rich . I wasn't sure whose thread we were on. LOL

Paul48

@ChrisJ

Some economists.......For exactly the reason Rich stated. When the dollar collapses, you will need to protect your family. A pack mentality will develop, and they will come to take what you have. Will there be any police, that don't get paid? There are many nasty things that could happen when the dollar collapses. It will become desperate times for people. I'd like to think that things are being blown ,way out of proportion. But, you have to look around you.

ChrisJ

Paul48 said:

@ChrisJ Some economists.......For exactly the reason Rich stated. When the dollar collapses, you will need to protect your family. A pack mentality will develop, and they will come to take what you have. Will there be any police, that don't get paid? There are many nasty things that could happen when the dollar collapses. It will become desperate times for people. I'd like to think that things are being blown ,way out of proportion. But, you have to look around you.

Sorry, I'm just tired of "the world is coming to an end" stuff that never seems to stop.

Rich_49

Chris , Chris , Chris . I guess what Iceland did a few years ago did not happen and what Britain did just last week was a figment of everyone's imagination ? Several other countries like Greece , Ireland , Spain and a host of others have not faced crisis' in the recent past and needed bailouts . You cannot get currency from thin air and expect it to have value .

Don't worry though . The world will still be here , civilization is just in trouble . I will need an old **** refrigerator though , can you help ?

I feel your frustration though , the world did not end in 1984 , 2000, 2014 or any of the other dates predicted . One would have to be completely blind and sorry , Stupid to not understand what is coming down the pike . Best wishes to you and yours , and remember , the whole world is not like Budd Lake .

This thread has gotten so derailed from the original I will refrain from further comment and add for the OP , Yes there is a shortage of skilled labor that may or may not be necessary based on current circumstances .

ChrisJ

Rich said:

Chris , Chris , Chris . I guess what Iceland did a few years ago did not happen and what Britain did just last week was a figment of everyone's imagination ? Several other countries like Greece , Ireland , Spain and a host of others have not faced crisis' in the recent past and needed bailouts . You cannot get currency from thin air and expect it to have value .

Don't worry though . The world will still be here , civilization is just in trouble . I will need an old **** refrigerator though , can you help ?

I feel your frustration though , the world did not end in 1984 , 2000, 2014 or any of the other dates predicted . One would have to be completely blind and sorry , Stupid to not understand what is coming down the pike . Best wishes to you and yours , and remember , the whole world is not like Budd Lake .

This thread has gotten so derailed from the original I will refrain from further comment and add for the OP , Yes there is a shortage of skilled labor that may or may not be necessary based on current circumstances .

You know @Rich part of wearing "Big Boy Pants" is having couth.
You'll find, when you treat people in a respectful way they will listen to your opinion and view on things more often.

Insulting them doesn't usually get you very far.

I'm by no means perfect, I know that. But I do try to be respectful of others. This may sometimes get lost in text, or maybe I just screw up but I do try.

This is one thing about @DanHolohan I respect very much, and try to learn from. He is extremely good with dealing with people.

It seems to be a very difficult to learn, yet useful skill that many are lacking.

ChrisJ

I also do not feel I was in any way disrespectful to @Paul48

In fact, I think we agree on quite a few things.

DanHolohan

Thanks for that, Chris.

Gordy

Don't worry @Paul48 the ones with the most to lose will feel the most pain........

Gordy

The EU collapse is coming. Belgium, France, Italy. Germany wants to run the whole show, and none will have it. Coming from my uncle in Italy.

Before the euro the Lira had spending power. After the euro not so much.

Global economy = global collapse.

Rich_49

ChrisJ said:

Rich said:

Chris , Chris , Chris . I guess what Iceland did a few years ago did not happen and what Britain did just last week was a figment of everyone's imagination ? Several other countries like Greece , Ireland , Spain and a host of others have not faced crisis' in the recent past and needed bailouts . You cannot get currency from thin air and expect it to have value .

Don't worry though . The world will still be here , civilization is just in trouble . I will need an old **** refrigerator though , can you help ?

I feel your frustration though , the world did not end in 1984 , 2000, 2014 or any of the other dates predicted . One would have to be completely blind and sorry , Stupid to not understand what is coming down the pike . Best wishes to you and yours , and remember , the whole world is not like Budd Lake .

This thread has gotten so derailed from the original I will refrain from further comment and add for the OP , Yes there is a shortage of skilled labor that may or may not be necessary based on current circumstances .

You know @Rich part of wearing "Big Boy Pants" is having couth.
You'll find, when you treat people in a respectful way they will listen to your opinion and view on things more often.

Insulting them doesn't usually get you very far.

I'm by no means perfect, I know that. But I do try to be respectful of others. This may sometimes get lost in text, or maybe I just screw up but I do try.

This is one thing about @DanHolohan I respect very much, and try to learn from. He is extremely good with dealing with people.

It seems to be a very difficult to learn, yet useful skill that many are lacking.

Yes Chris , Dan is quite the shepherd . Thanks Dan for this resource .

Gordy

As you watch the market tank. One must not be blind to the reasons why. Wait for the bottom, and where is the bottom is the question.

Tinman

I could not care less about the end of the world, which isn't to be confused with not doing all we can to protect this planet and the people on it.
But it seems to me some are talking about an apocalyptic end of the world and if and when that does happens, it means the END of the friggin' world. Not the end of everybody BUT the ones with extra canned goods, 9mm Glocks, an AR15, and a bomb shelter.
Big boy pants? Try living a life that isn't consumed with fear.

Rich_49

One last post against my better judgement .

A majority of the citizens of this country are much like drug addicts . They do not realize they have a problem until they hit rock bottom . They don't even recognize rock bottom for quite some time . Hopefully they do not overdose before they realize it and help themselves before they lose EVERYTHING . Those who would promote political correctness and attempt to tell others how to communicate or express themselves are nothing more than enablers . Europe is just like the guys in the next town over that are overdosing while you think the problem does not exist in your town . When enough people die you tend to wake up and change things . Funny thing is that nobody wants to listen to those who have been there before , those who are addressing the problem and those who see the problem and communicate differently because the problem is that serious . Amazing that we are not as educated as we were 240 years ago . Time for Rehab , you may not like it ! things will be said that offend and hurt , things will happen that are painful , but it is what is necessary for healing and prosperity .

Gordy

The people who lived through the "Great Depression" carried what they learned through the rest of their lives. Even though prosperity became attainable again their ways during the period of the depression never left their side.

It was a sobering experience to all after the drunken stupor of the roaring 20's.