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Labor Shortage?

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  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    @ChrisJ

    Electronics are just what has become a virtual life for kids. Blaming electronics was wrong, but without them, things might be different. The facts are that times have changed. Small towns use to have wooded areas and fields and brooks and swamps. Those have all become developments. We spent our days outside. We learned how to build tree forts, because we wanted a place to hang out. We learned how to fix our bikes, because if we didn't, we didn't have them to ride. We built go-karts, and mini-bikes. We built them, so we knew how to fix them. If we got cut, we went home to mom(who was home), and got doctored up. We did a lot of the cool stuff(without killing anyone), that the kids today are only playing as a game. When we were kids, if someone was in your car, he was closing your windows. It was about to rain. Most of the time, the front door wasn't locked.
    Without assigning blame to any individuals.....times have changed, drastically. The kids are products of their environment. Finger pointing doesn't change the facts. Society has changed.....It's taken a giant step backwards.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    edited June 2016
    Paul48 said:

    @ChrisJ

    Electronics are just what has become a virtual life for kids. Blaming electronics was wrong, but without them, things might be different. The facts are that times have changed. Small towns use to have wooded areas and fields and brooks and swamps. Those have all become developments. We spent our days outside. We learned how to build tree forts, because we wanted a place to hang out. We learned how to fix our bikes, because if we didn't, we didn't have them to ride. We built go-karts, and mini-bikes. We built them, so we knew how to fix them. If we got cut, we went home to mom(who was home), and got doctored up. We did a lot of the cool stuff(without killing anyone), that the kids today are only playing as a game. When we were kids, if someone was in your car, he was closing your windows. It was about to rain. Most of the time, the front door wasn't locked.
    Without assigning blame to any individuals.....times have changed, drastically. The kids are products of their environment. Finger pointing doesn't change the facts. Society has changed.....It's taken a giant step backwards.


    There were an awful lot of places that were urban when you were growing up just as there are a lot of rural places right now. I do not feel this has anything to do with what's going on.

    Both of my parents worked full time and when I got cut, I was typically expected to doctor my self up, unless it was really bad. I ended up with 21 stiches from an accident on my bike when i was 8, that was a bit out of my capabilities.

    I was allowed to use all of my dad's mechanics tools when I was as young as 5 years old, his carpenter tools were off limits because he made his living with them. It's still brought up during holidays about how I damaged his new $500 pool filter with a hacksaw when I was 5 years old.

    Think most 15 year olds today know what a hacksaw is? Let alone a 5 year old? What about 25? 35? I've tried turning the pool filter around on him, asking why a 5 year old had access to a hacksaw. His response continues to be "Because kids need to learn how to use tools and there will always be accidents and things will be damaged but it's necessary".

    It all still falls back on the parents in my opinion.

    Even if kids in more urban areas wanted to do stuff you did, their parents wouldn't let them most of the time.

    Like I tell friends, want your kids to go out instead of playing games? Give them a reason! Take those kids you keep mentioning playing Xbox. You're telling me you honestly believe for a second they would rather do that, then ride a mini-bike given the opportunity!?

    Their parents won't let them, they could get hurt, or dirty, or chip a fingernail or breathed on wrong.


    It can change and it all starts at home.








    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    SWEIRich_49
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    @ChrisJ

    "Their parents won't let them, they could get hurt, or dirty, or chip a fingernail or breathed on wrong".

    You mean the parents that were raised playing X-Box?

    You're right....there are still a lot of rural areas, and these areas still produce the most likely candidates for the trades. It's the suburbs that have disappeared or are slowly disappearing. Where do those kids ride a mini-bike? What tree do they build a tree fort in, in a 15 yr old, clear-cut development? Letting your 5 yr old ride his bike 5 miles to go to the hobby shop, would be considered wreckless for todays parents. It wasn't for parents 50 years ago. People all along the 5 miles, knew who I was, and who my parents were, also.
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766

    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    SWEIGordy4Johnpipe
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    edited June 2016
    Paul48 said:

    @ChrisJ

    "Their parents won't let them, they could get hurt, or dirty, or chip a fingernail or breathed on wrong".

    You mean the parents that were raised playing X-Box?

    You're right....there are still a lot of rural areas, and these areas still produce the most likely candidates for the trades. It's the suburbs that have disappeared or are slowly disappearing. Where do those kids ride a mini-bike? What tree do they build a tree fort in, in a 15 yr old, clear-cut development? Letting your 5 yr old ride his bike 5 miles to go to the hobby shop, would be considered wreckless for todays parents. It wasn't for parents 50 years ago. People all along the 5 miles, knew who I was, and who my parents were, also.

    Since the first Xbox was released in 2001, no, I don't mean "parents that were raised playing X-Box".


    For the start of this problem, I'm looking straight at your generation Paul and it's got worse with each generation.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    Earnings potential or increased wages will ultimately balance the scale.
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    edited June 2016
    My head hurts.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    @ChrisJ

    I'm not up on the history of game consoles. And....yes....my generation produced yours....so, I agree with you.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    My head hurting was 100% on topic, Terry O. This thread made it hurt, and I decided to put that in order to delete what I originally had to avoid an argument.

    And Paul, I'm generation X, not a millennial. Just to be clear.
    I have to assume that was a shot, not sure.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • njtommy
    njtommy Member Posts: 1,105
    Easy with the Millennial jokes @ChrisJ you may hurt my one last feeling I have or had. Lol

    A lot of companies by me are looking for Good quality techs. which are hard to come by mostly because they are well takin care of by their current employers.
    ChrisJ
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    @ChrisJ

    Why are you arguing? You went from zero to full throttle with the very first posting. You defend gaming, as though I said something about one of your family members. It may be as you say.....gaming is what is left for kids, when everything else in the world is not right. It would seem we could get to a common ground by having a discussion, without pointing fingers.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    edited June 2016
    Paul48 said:

    @ChrisJ

    Why are you arguing? You went from zero to full throttle with the very first posting. You defend gaming, as though I said something about one of your family members. It may be as you say.....gaming is what is left for kids, when everything else in the world is not right. It would seem we could get to a common ground by having a discussion, without pointing fingers.


    Not angry or upset and not pointing fingers.


    Just stating what I believe to be the cause of what everyone is complaining about.

    I'm defending gaming and electronic devices if you want to point it that way, because I feel they have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

    As far as why am I arguing, that's a good question and the only, honest answer I can give is because I let my self get sucked into another political discussion like an idiot. ;)


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    I agree with those who believe it starts with the parents, but nowadays we shelter our children more than we were sheltered partly because society has become more dangerous than it was back in the 'innocent' 60's and 70's. Sheltering them leads to lack of exposure, lack of maturity/life experience and overall well rounded knowledge. It's a delicate balancing act to try to protect them, but not overprotect.
    If we gave our kids the liberties we had (I was born in the 60's) as kids growing up... CPS would be knocking on our door and we'd probably get arrested and told we shouldn't have children.

    With that in mind, there are still things parents can do to get kids involved and give them hands on experience. But it takes effort and time which is difficult to find when you're connected at the hip to facebook,twitter,etc... posting/reading self indulgent utter drivel every waking moment.
    To that end- We have a neighbor who's son is learning to ride a bike... last Sunday the mother was sitting on their stoop "watching" him ride in the street. We were in our front yard spreading mulch at that time. Every time I looked across the street at the mother sitting on the stoop... guess what she was doing? She was looking down texting on her phone. I didn't see her look up even once to see where her son was or if he was safe. We ended up calling out to him a few times to warn him about oncoming traffic. She finally looked up and called out to him when it was time to go back into the yard. Now there's some great parenting! The same couple has a son in 10th grade... he had a concert last week... we saw the mother leave the driveway at 6:50 then come back home alone 10min later then leave again at 9pm and return with her son 10min later. They couldn't even be bothered to sit at their son's concert performance. Again... great parenting!
    Is it any wonder that the police have been at their house probably a dozen times in the past year- with the 10th grader being cuffed and removed several times? What kind of employee is that kid going to be?




    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    NY_Rob said:

    I agree with those who believe it starts with the parents, but nowadays we shelter our children more than we were sheltered partly because society has become more dangerous than it was back in the 'innocent' 60's and 70's. Sheltering them leads to lack of exposure, lack of maturity/life experience and overall well rounded knowledge. It's a delicate balancing act to try to protect them, but not overprotect.
    If we gave our kids the liberties we had (I was born in the 60's) as kids growing up... CPS would be knocking on our door and we'd probably get arrested and told we shouldn't have children.

    With that in mind, there are still things parents can do to get kids involved and give them hands on experience. But it takes effort and time which is difficult to find when you're connected at the hip to facebook,twitter,etc... posting/reading self indulgent utter drivel every waking moment.
    To that end- We have a neighbor who's son is learning to ride a bike... last Sunday the mother was sitting on their stoop "watching" him ride in the street. We were in our front yard spreading mulch at that time. Every time I looked across the street at the mother sitting on the stoop... guess what she was doing? She was looking down texting on her phone. I didn't see her look up even once to see where her son was or if he was safe. We ended up calling out to him a few times to warn him about oncoming traffic. She finally looked up and called out to him when it was time to go back into the yard. Now there's some great parenting! The same couple has a son in 10th grade... he had a concert last week... we saw the mother leave the driveway at 6:50 then come back home alone 10min later then leave again at 9pm and return with her son 10min later. They couldn't even be bothered to sit at their son's concert performance. Again... great parenting!
    Is it any wonder that the police have been at their house probably a dozen times in the past year- with the 10th grader being cuffed and removed several times? What kind of employee is that kid going to be?




    People with their faces glued to their phones is something I can't stand.

    That does seem to be a serious problem for young and old. I only use forums and such from a desktop PC. When I walk away from it, I'm disconnected and I need that from time to time.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
    edited June 2016
    @ChrisJ

    Good spirited debate with folks whom have different views is how things actually get done . It is what has been lost in this experiment called America . Ben Franklin once told some folks in Philadelphia , " you have a republic , let's see how long you can keep it " , or very close . At some point people became dis interested and left all the decisions to others . Here we are .

    You don't have to go to a store and get big boy pants , they don't sell them . Not many have a few pairs in their closet anymore , that's a shame because so much more would get done and fewer people would feel victimized and as if they have been insulted . That's what political correctness has done to the fabric of this country . It goes to the fact that nobody is comfortable speaking their mind which was always necessary to support the existence of this country which was so thoroughly thought through by the founders .

    It only took III% of the population to make it happen against the most powerful country on Earth at the time . Has it gotten to the point where it was all for naught ?

    Everyone , go get your big boy pants on and be men , not lab rats .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    HatterasguynjtommyGordy
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,476
    We moved to the projects when I was 6 years old, my brothers and I thought we died and went to heaven. These were 4 family houses on a peninsula that stuck out into the bay. We had fields, the beach and swamp nearby. The largest elementary school in the state was 1/4 mile away and we all walked to school.

    Within a few years i realized all the neat stuff people threw away in the trash. I was out there every trash day cruising for stuff to mess with. My mother would go crazy with the stuff I lugged down the cellar but she understood that was what boys did. I learned I could take parts from two or three different finds and make something work. I made a lot of mistakes and came close to burning the place down a couple of times but I LEARNED how stuff works.

    In a couple of years I was fixing the neighbors radios and TV's, then I went to a 4 year technical high school and from there into the army.

    That scenario isn't an option for kids any more because everything is surface mount and just about impossible for a novice to work on. It's a different world and we are worse off for it, kids are all prepped to inhabit a cubical and push paper for the rest of their lives.

    BOB
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    Rich_49rick in Alaska
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    BobC said:

    We moved to the projects when I was 6 years old, my brothers and I thought we died and went to heaven. These were 4 family houses on a peninsula that stuck out into the bay. We had fields, the beach and swamp nearby. The largest elementary school in the state was 1/4 mile away and we all walked to school.

    Within a few years i realized all the neat stuff people threw away in the trash. I was out there every trash day cruising for stuff to mess with. My mother would go crazy with the stuff I lugged down the cellar but she understood that was what boys did. I learned I could take parts from two or three different finds and make something work. I made a lot of mistakes and came close to burning the place down a couple of times but I LEARNED how stuff works.

    In a couple of years I was fixing the neighbors radios and TV's, then I went to a 4 year technical high school and from there into the army.

    That scenario isn't an option for kids any more because everything is surface mount and just about impossible for a novice to work on. It's a different world and we are worse off for it, kids are all prepped to inhabit a cubical and push paper for the rest of their lives.

    BOB

    Bob,
    Have you seen all of the stuff available for kids to work with?

    One example would be Raspberry PI.
    No, you're not necessarily soldering, but you're building very cool, and useful stuff for very little money.

    The stuff a teenager can create now for very little money is truly unbelievable.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,476
    I have a couple of Pi's up on my desk. The problem I see is because of the way stuff is made a kids ability to experiment with things is not easy especially for those who learn better by doing than with a book. Most of the stuff I worked with was free for the taking, the one thing kids have now is an amazing assortment of tutorials online. I found a great one on Youtube that covered transformer design and made the process easy to understand

    I slowly acquired hand tools and eventually a Simpson 260 and that really opened things up for me. For the next 10years I was up at my local parts distributors almost every week. Now we have MCM, Mouser, Jameco and Ebay, good thing cause the old parts distributor closed 30 years ago.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    BobC said:

    I have a couple of Pi's up on my desk. The problem I see is because of the way stuff is made a kids ability to experiment with things is not easy especially for those who learn better by doing than with a book. Most of the stuff I worked with was free for the taking, the one thing kids have now is an amazing assortment of tutorials online. I found a great one on Youtube that covered transformer design and made the process easy to understand

    I slowly acquired hand tools and eventually a Simpson 260 and that really opened things up for me. For the next 10years I was up at my local parts distributors almost every week. Now we have MCM, Mouser, Jameco and Ebay, good thing cause the old parts distributor closed 30 years ago.

    Bob

    You may have a point.
    Though, even with my arthritis, I can solder surface mount pretty good, even down to 0402.

    I can only assume, someone starting out now may even be better with the right tools.

    But at the same time, you need good tools and a $100 iron may be an issue for a kid at home with his parents, as you mentioned the Pi also costs money.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,476
    My first soldering iron was an Ungar wood burning iron that I bought a soldering tip for (50 cents). i started to acquire old chassis and strip them for parts, everything was point to point wiring back then, printed circuits had not filtered down to consumer gear yet. I remember filling up the sidewalk with old chassis (and 2 barrels of smashed crt's) on trash day just before going in the army in the mid 60's.

    I still use a Weller wtcp that I put together from 3 different irons back in the early 70's, you can still get tips for them. I usually get the 700F tips.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
    NY Rob said
    " With that in mind, there are still things parents can do to get kids involved and give them hands on experience. But it takes effort and time which is difficult to find when you're connected at the hip to facebook,twitter,etc... posting/reading self indulgent utter drivel every waking moment.
    To that end- We have a neighbor who's son is learning to ride a bike... last Sunday the mother was sitting on their stoop "watching" him ride in the street. We were in our front yard spreading mulch at that time. Every time I looked across the street at the mother sitting on the stoop... guess what she was doing? She was looking down texting on her phone. I didn't see her look up even once to see where her son was or if he was safe. We ended up calling out to him a few times to warn him about oncoming traffic. She finally looked up and called out to him when it was time to go back into the yard. Now there's some great parenting! The same couple has a son in 10th grade... he had a concert last week... we saw the mother leave the driveway at 6:50 then come back home alone 10min later then leave again at 9pm and return with her son 10min later. They couldn't even be bothered to sit at their son's concert performance. Again... great parenting!
    Is it any wonder that the police have been at their house probably a dozen times in the past year- with the 10th grader being cuffed and removed several times? What kind of employee is that kid going to be? "

    Good for you in recognizing that you are part of the community in which you live . Good for you that you understand that assisting whether wanted or not is a good thing to do . I also act in this way toward my neighbors and children when I deem it necessary and to hell with whomever has issue with it , and many do , like i am nosey or something . This mothers parenting may leave much to be desired , it certainly sounds that way , but society is not without blame because of how things have evolved through the last century and some odd years . Children will now do what they want when they want for the most part and you as a parent may very well be in great peril . If you discipline them some social worker or liberal Alpha Hotel may bring you up on charges and your other children are then in peril . You have teachers that are continuously thinking it is their job to protect your children from you . Let's face it the world and this country are severely FoxTrotted Up my friends . Dan often says " hug your kids ' , and I agree but there are weirdos out here now that don't do that and see something other than a nurturing hug and call the police on you . I have seen children not want to listen to their mother's in stores and actually scream out " you're not my Mommy " , everyone gets involved and nobody knows quite what to do .

    Shame on you for being s damned judgemental at the same time . Not so much about the terrible parents whether they are or not , do we know what goes on in their house , really know ?
    My parents were divorced , mom worked three jobs because even with the pittance courts made dad's pay then was no real help at all . She did the absolute best she could while not letting me and my siblings starve or be homeless . She showed me nothing but love through sheer determination . I was that kid in handcuffs more times than I care to think about . When they stuck me where i deserved to be she never once missed visiting day . That's enough of Rich's story . Care to venture a guess into what type employee I am and what I have accomplished ?

    Just something to think about , now go hug your kids and keep looking out for those less fortunate just because at the end of the day it feels better not to be an Alpha Hotel .

    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    TinmanGordy
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    edited June 2016
    What this is really all related to is a population shift.

    I think this is just the tip of the iceberg, we suffer from terribly bad management on the whole from the fed to the states, there really is no concerted look at future planning.

    We are retiring and those behind us are fewer in numbers.

    Already the system is winding down, houses are sitting vacant, cars and goods are not being sold, this will continue.

    They should probably halt all new home construction, especially track housing, it's over, the boom is done, the population is dropping.

    Go to Home Depot, go to Lowes, look at the counters, self check out open, 1 counter open, no lines for years, what does that tell you?
    Rich_49
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    GreenGene said:

    What this is really all related to is a population shift.

    I think this is just the tip of the iceberg, we suffer from terribly bad management on the whole from the fed to the states, there really is no concerted look at future planning.

    We are retiring and those behind us are fewer in numbers.

    Already the system is winding down, houses are sitting vacant, cars and goods are not being sold, this will continue.

    They should probably halt all new home construction, especially track housing, it's over, the boom is done, the population is dropping.

    Go to Home Depot, go to Lowes, look at the counters, self check out open, 1 counter open, no lines for years, what does that tell you?

    That you don't live in New Jersey?

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
    @ChrisJ
    It seems exactly like that at both of those stores locations near me . Different where you live maybe because those are the only outlets ?
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    edited June 2016
    Rich said:

    @ChrisJ
    It seems exactly like that at both of those stores locations near me . Different where you live maybe because those are the only outlets ?

    Could be.
    Or the times I end up going there. Would be my luck for the time I go to be the only busy time.


    I usually order online and then go in to pick it up, or if I actually go "shopping" at either Lowes or Homer I typically walk down to the contractor checkout so I don't have to wait in line.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    edited June 2016
    I'm in Ct, talking several stores over a 50 mile area.

    The economy hasn't recovered and it isn't going to, not with fewer people, it's going to find a new equilibrium.

    Homes are going to lose value big time, kids don't want homes, they want condos and retirees want senior living, over 50 living, etc.

    The govt approached recovery all wrong, they focused on the top instead of the middle, they bailed everyone out. What they should have done is let Wall st take its lumps, lose their mansions, learn a lesson, it cost us taxpayers 750billion on W's bail out and then 750 billion on O's, then they gave automakers billions.

    What they should have done is bail us out, given everyone new cars and work it Trickle UP, from the people, through the dealers and service centers and finally to the automakers, then so many dealers would not have to close.

    Also homeowners needed swift protection from foreclosure, especially people that had paid into their homes for a long time and may have been close to having it paid off.

    It's really insane if you research it, we were dying by 2003, dealers were dropping sales, automakers refused to respond, if you recall by 2006 and on you could find last years cars brand new, that means they aren't selling like they did, the automakers refused to scale back production and told the dealers to eat it, that it was their problem, like I said, we suffer from bad management all around because they can't see the truth or reality, greed blinds them.

    With the way the world is right now, I do not think we're going to have a labor shortage, we'll see, but these people are incapable of learning, they'd rather hire an economist and tell them to make a report that agrees with what they believe or want to, and that is insanity.
    gennadyCLamb
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    We are no longer the industrial giant of the world. We gave our jobs away. With the loss of industry, so went the skilled workers. If you believe the government's unemployment statistics, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
    GreenGenegennady
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    Paul48 said:

    We are no longer the industrial giant of the world. We gave our jobs away. With the loss of industry, so went the skilled workers. If you believe the government's unemployment statistics, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

    Do you have an accurate source we can go by for statistics on unemployment?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
    Yeah , it will require some math . Look at the last census and break population up into segments . I can tell you there are roughly 90,000,000 working at present , pretty Foxtrotting dismal .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    edited June 2016
    Rich said:

    Yeah , it will require some math . Look at the last census and break population up into segments . I can tell you there are roughly 90,000,000 working at present , pretty Foxtrotting dismal .

    How can you tell me there's 90,000,000 working at present?
    How many were working in 2006?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • R Mannino
    R Mannino Member Posts: 440
    ChrisJ said:

    Paul48 said:

    We are no longer the industrial giant of the world. We gave our jobs away. With the loss of industry, so went the skilled workers. If you believe the government's unemployment statistics, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

    Do you have an accurate source we can go by for statistics on unemployment?
    We don't trust the current administration's numbers?
    Rich_49
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    R Mannino said:


    ChrisJ said:

    Paul48 said:

    We are no longer the industrial giant of the world. We gave our jobs away. With the loss of industry, so went the skilled workers. If you believe the government's unemployment statistics, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

    Do you have an accurate source we can go by for statistics on unemployment?
    We don't trust the current administration's numbers?

    But you trusted the previous ones?
    Interesting.
    So, only this administration's numbers are wrong then.

    Rich said he thinks there's 90,000,000 people working.
    Best I could come up there's currently 198,498,642 people in the US betweem 18 and 65.

    This means Rich feels there is currently 108,498,642 adults between 18 and 65 currently unemployed.

    So less than half of our adult population is employed?

    That's the best I could do with the little time I could put into it.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
    How many were working in 2006 has no bearing on the state of unemployment numbers today and frankly , who cares . The difference between then and now can only be used to point fingers and doing that will never address the problem . this entire country needs to stop thinking about things like Trial lawyers if we are ever to do anything to fix the problems
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    edited June 2016
    Rich said:

    How many were working in 2006 has no bearing on the state of unemployment numbers today and frankly , who cares . The difference between then and now can only be used to point fingers and doing that will never address the problem . this entire country needs to stop thinking about things like Trial lawyers if we are ever to do anything to fix the problems

    It has a huge bearing.
    In 2006 the country was said to be doing well overall by most.

    Now, you're saying it's terrible.
    If the unemployment percentage has not changed, what does that indicate?

    You said " I can tell you there are roughly 90,000,000 working at present , pretty Foxtrotting dismal ." If the percentage is the same as it was in the 1990s, mid 2000s, it must not be very dismal.

    That's why I asked for the data.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,722
    When having these discussions the only numbers that matter are percentages. Throwing out hard numbers is a fantastic way to skew opinions one way or another no matter what the reality is. I mean look at the numbers Chris threw out, that would lead a person to believe things are horrible. How many between 18 and 65 are retired? How many between 18 and 65 don't work by choice? My wife stays at home, but she is included in the raw numbers of people and skews the statistics to one side which is wrong. Both my parents retired before 65, my wife stays at home by choice. So out of 4 working age adults only one works this means nothing in the grand scheme, but it speaks to how statistics can be skewed to make any point you want. I think my family shows how fantastic the economy currently is. Someone else could say look 75% unemployment by leaving some information out. If a person doesn't believe numbers are skewed all the time in this country I suggest one takes a statistics class, it can be VERY eye opening.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • R Mannino
    R Mannino Member Posts: 440
    ChrisJ said:

    R Mannino said:


    ChrisJ said:

    Paul48 said:

    We are no longer the industrial giant of the world. We gave our jobs away. With the loss of industry, so went the skilled workers. If you believe the government's unemployment statistics, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

    Do you have an accurate source we can go by for statistics on unemployment?
    We don't trust the current administration's numbers?

    But you trusted the previous ones?
    Interesting.
    So, only this administration's numbers are wrong then.

    Rich said he thinks there's 90,000,000 people working.
    Best I could come up there's currently 198,498,642 people in the US betweem 18 and 65.

    This means Rich feels there is currently 108,498,642 adults between 18 and 65 currently unemployed.

    So less than half of our adult population is employed?

    That's the best I could do with the little time I could put into it.
    I don't trust the govt, period! They are self serving, instead of serving you and I.
    Robert O'Brien
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,588
    edited June 2016
    R Mannino said:

    ChrisJ said:

    R Mannino said:


    ChrisJ said:

    Paul48 said:

    We are no longer the industrial giant of the world. We gave our jobs away. With the loss of industry, so went the skilled workers. If you believe the government's unemployment statistics, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

    Do you have an accurate source we can go by for statistics on unemployment?
    We don't trust the current administration's numbers?

    But you trusted the previous ones?
    Interesting.
    So, only this administration's numbers are wrong then.

    Rich said he thinks there's 90,000,000 people working.
    Best I could come up there's currently 198,498,642 people in the US betweem 18 and 65.

    This means Rich feels there is currently 108,498,642 adults between 18 and 65 currently unemployed.

    So less than half of our adult population is employed?

    That's the best I could do with the little time I could put into it.
    I don't trust the govt, period! They are self serving, instead of serving you and I.
    I don't trust anyone.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Robert O'Brien
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    Paul48 said:

    We are no longer the industrial giant of the world. We gave our jobs away. With the loss of industry, so went the skilled workers. If you believe the government's unemployment statistics, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

    Paul I've done extensive research on everything screwed up since the 1990's, the unemployment % is so screwed up, after the Civil War there was widespread unemployment, the govt was concerned but had no real numbers so they came up with the census, that was very accurate, it justs asks EVERYONE what your status is.

    Sometime after WWII came this new system of manipulation, people are put into categories but to even be in a category you have to be paying into the system in the first place so many are never counted, the BLS has 6 U numbers they put people in, U-3 is the official number given to the media you can see that here.

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

    ********HERE'S THE KICKER********

    Under the census in the great Depression the max rate was 18%.

    We hit the mid 20%or higher by 2008-2009, the official U-3 number was in the high teens, but we know it doesn't count everyone.

    Besides we didn't have a Depression, we had a Recession, wink wink, nudge nudge.
    gennady
  • GreenGene
    GreenGene Member Posts: 290
    Now to pop some bubbles it may interest you to know what caused the 2nd Great Depression, it was a bill called CFMA of 2000, it was the last of the great deregulation bills, carefully crafted by Phil & Wendy Gramm (Phil also sponsored it) ENRON (Wendy worked there), Lehman, Wall st, Goldman Sachs etc, they all wanted to get rid of the remaining regulations put in place after the first Great Depression.

    Guess what you get when you do that?

    There was a thing called Bucket Shops in the late 1800's up until the crash, they were side bets placed on stock outcomes and a major cause of the early crashes, great money makers for a few though, and that's what they did, they brought them back this time online and called Credit Default Swaps or Derivatives, they also made sure the govt couldn't impose any rules like you can't put out more bets than the house (Wall st) has money to cover.

    They also deregulated the housing market so people that shouldn't qualify for a mortgage could, again to make more money.

    Some of the betters saw the housing market dropping and they bet against it and they won, legally billions, Wall st did not have the money to cover it, the system and economy crashed and because all the other markets around the world had taken up this new game they also crashed.

    They raided our 401k's and God knows what else, they became known as "lost". Then W gave them 750 billion of our money and O gave them 750 more.

    That's what really happened.....shh don't tell the American people, they're sleeping.
    SWEI
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
    Nail in the coffin was the repeal of Glass - Steagel Act ( spelling?) done under Slick Willy . You remember , when all the hundreds of banks started merging and dabbling where they were not allowed to before .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833