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# Worlds smallest header?

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1 1/4" is big enough for this right? Smh
Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

cell # 413-841-6726
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating

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You see a header there do ya?
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
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I find calculating the steam velocity can be entertaining at times http://www.tlv.com/global/TI/calculator/steam-velocity-through-piping.html

After derating for altitude, the 211A I posted a few weeks back would hit 145 FPS through 2" Sch.40 at 0.5 PSI.
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SWEI said:

I find calculating the steam velocity can be entertaining at times http://www.tlv.com/global/TI/calculator/steam-velocity-through-piping.html

After derating for altitude, the 211A I posted a few weeks back would hit 145 FPS through 2" Sch.40 at 0.5 PSI.

What I don't understand about steam velocity ratings is they never seem to agree with how long it takes steam to hit my main vents?

The fastest time on my long 2" 29' main is about 60 seconds. Shouldn't it be more like 2 seconds?
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
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The steam is collapsing as it approaches your vents Chris. If the pipe was already at 212 degrees at the scene entered it it would vent faster. The same velocity charts are based off of a system that is already up to temperature at the speed that travels to the Steam that is being used
Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

cell # 413-841-6726
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
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The steam is collapsing as it approaches your vents Chris. If the pipe was already at 212 degrees at the scene entered it it would vent faster. The same velocity charts are based off of a system that is already up to temperature at the speed that travels to the Steam that is being used

How much could the main have cooled off in 5 minutes with 1" insulation?
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
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It would have to be below 140 degrees or your vents will not open to allow air in.
Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

cell # 413-841-6726
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
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edited June 2016
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It would have to be below 140 degrees or your vents will not open to allow air in.

Not true.
My vents are located in a cold crawlspace and they are not insulated, nor is the 3/4" nipple connected to them. This nipple drops below 180F in about 4 minutes.

The insulated steam pipe is without a doubt still above 180F in 5 minutes.
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
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I suggest you insulate the nipple. Or even better relocate the vent to a warmer area so it takes longer to cool.
Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

cell # 413-841-6726
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
• Member Posts: 15,788
edited June 2016
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I suggest you insulate the nipple. Or even better relocate the vent to a warmer area so it takes longer to cool.

What benefit would this give other than making the system struggle trying to push air out?

All of the radiator vents will still be wide open.

In fact, I'm betting this would cause all sorts of balancing problems. Half the main full of air, half not, main vents still shut etc.

I rely on that nipple to cool to reset the Ecosteam, especially when it's below zero out and I'm running 3 CPH. I have around 5 to 6 minutes in between cycles.
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
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If the vent is warm and close what air would be stuck?
Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

cell # 413-841-6726
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
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If the vent is warm and close what air would be stuck?

The 10 wide open radiator vents will let air in.
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
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ChrisJ said:

You see a header there do ya?

That installer was a "good hot-water man" . And yes, you have me beat- smallest one I've seen was 1-1/2".
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting
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That problem of the apparent velocity of steam in a main being much less that the calculated velocity is kind of subtle. However, until the boundary layer of steam against the pipe reaches 212 (at "normal" atmospheric -- but close enough) steam simply will not go significantly farther -- it will, quite happily condense. If the pipe is nice and warm -- your 180, @ChrisJ , for instance, that will happen fairly quickly -- but not instantly. So the bottom line is that the steam front in the pipe will move only as fast as the steam will heat the pipe.

Oddly, the back pressure from a vent won't affect this all that much -- assuming the vents are at least reasonable. Which debate I have no intention of reopening...

Saturated steam is funny stuff.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
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Has anyone probed a steam system and measured 212°?
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jumper said:

Has anyone probed a steam system and measured 212°?

Not sure I understand your question?
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
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ChrisJ said:

jumper said:

Has anyone probed a steam system and measured 212°?

Not sure I understand your question?
I figure that at 0 psig it's cooler than 212° unless there's no air in system. Because the partial pressure of the water vapor is less than 0 psig.

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New boiler new Header
Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

cell # 413-841-6726
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
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Looking good!
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Thanks. Definitely better than what they had.
Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

cell # 413-841-6726
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
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Great job!! @Charlie from wmass
ASM Mechanical Company
Located in Staten Island NY
Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
347-692-4777
ASMMECHANICALCORP@GMAIL.COM
ASMHVACNYC.COM
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company
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Charlie saves another one. Nice job!
New England SteamWorks
Service, Installation, & Restoration of Steam Heating Systems
newenglandsteamworks.com
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That's some really thick insulation for those small pipes. lol.

Looking good Charlie.
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edited June 2016
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jumper said:

ChrisJ said:

jumper said:

Has anyone probed a steam system and measured 212°?

Not sure I understand your question?
I figure that at 0 psig it's cooler than 212° unless there's no air in system. Because the partial pressure of the water vapor is less than 0 psig.

0 PSIG is typically 14.7 PSIA, which means a boiling point of 212F at sealevel. Above sealevel, this temperature should gradually drop as you get higher and higher.

At 2000 feet it's 13.7 PSIA so a boiling point around 210F.
At 5000 feet it's 12.2 PSIA so a boiling point of about 202F.
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
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Boil water in an open pot. Stick a thermometer into the steam –not the water– and see if you get 212°.
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If you can see it, it's by definition not steam. It's already condensed. Use a teapot, & put the thermometer in the "empty" area between the spout & the cloud. That outta be a lot closer to 212, depending on altitude/barometric pressure.
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Spout increases velocity to sweep away air. My point is that when there's air in a steam heating system the gases are less than 212° at 0 psig because part of the pressure is contributed by the air. So the water vapor pressure is less than 0 psig. Or am I missing something?
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Steam displaces air. They do not blend due to difference in densities.
Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

cell # 413-841-6726
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating