Utica SSC A01 Igniter Error

john p_2

Just got a second error message on my boiler display in about 4 days. Basically just reset the control panel and has been good until today.
I originally thought the first one was due to a heavy gust of wind that may have caused the igniter error message but I live in central Jersey and just wet through a blizzard with winds close to 60MPH and had no error messages all weekend.

I know everyone will want to see a diagram of the vent piping so I attached a drawing I made real quick just now. I didn't bother adding the fresh air piping because it is identical until hitting the attic - if necessary I will add a sketch of that .

The next thing I could see someone bringing up is gas pressure & piping. The piping is I-I/4" to within one foot of the boiler (see attach photo). And standing pressure is usually around 10' or 11 ". Once the boiler fires I have never seen it go below 6", which seems to be where it operates all the time.

Anybody have an idea?

lchmb

which model boiler is this? Vent length with 2" would be my first concern...

Ironman

Natural or Propane?

Was it setup using a digital combustion analyzer?

john p_2

Utica SSC . Roughly 13' of 2" with three elbows, two of which are long radius. Then 34' total of 3" pipe with two (3") 45's & two 90's

todd_ecr

John, we are definitely going to need combustion numbers(high fire and low fire CO2). Also, check the internal trap.(trap height). The condensate height should be near the bottom of the condensate collector.(draw an imaginary line from the condensate level in the trap, over to the collector). If it's too high, cut an inch or two off the end of the trap to shorten it.

Could you provide me the serial number?

john p_2

Todd, thanks for responding, once again.

Serial # is 071400031. Have to get back to you with combustion numbers and will check trap tomorrow. Are you comfortable with pipe lengths & # of fittings? - I feel I am well within limits.

Have to hand it to Rich & John from Langan's - a $66 gas bill last month for this 2800 sq foot home with 2 adults and 3 kids was really nice to see and I now leave all 4 heating zones at 68 degrees!

lchmb

just to confirm..this is the ssc 50? just want to make sure...

john p_2

N SSC - 075

lchmb

my book say's maximum vent length is 50 ft using 2" pipe. I know you increased to 3" but I've alway's been taught (may be wrong) to increase at the boiler not 28' into the system...just wondering if it's causing an issue with different temps and winds...

todd_ecr

Yea, you are fine with the venting.

I'd like to get a new control module out to you also. It will decrease the likelihood of a lockout by allowing more ignition attempts and retries. If you PM me your info, I can get it out tomorrow.

lchmb

ok..now I'm curious Todd...what am I misunderstanding in the manual? or did it change since my copy?

john p_2

Sorry, no it's the SSC- 075.
Ichmb - the 2" is only for the first 13'.

Todd, thanks so much, will do.
See attached photo, I believe it is too high...maybe hard to tell from photo but it is hard to get in there with camera.

John - the laid off pipefitter.

lchmb

each 90 counts for 5' additional feet of equiv length...3x5. They dont specify long sweeps or standard...I'm just curious if I'm misunderstanding their book or if it's more forgiving...learn every chance I can..:)

john p_2

Todd can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe it changes for the calculations - it's just the fitter in me less restrictive.

lchmb

btw John..awsome install...you shouldn't be retired with work like that..;) you should pick and choose what you want to do..;)

todd_ecr

It hasn't changed. 50' for 2", 100' for 3". I certainly agree, it would be more ideal to increase at the boiler. I will need to consult with engineering to make sure this arrangement falls within specification. My hunch is, it's fine.

todd_ecr

I can't tell from the pictures. The lower jacket panel needs to be removed to check the trap

lchmb

thanks Todd..I'll be sure to watch for more information...:)

john p_2

Todd, hope so, not sure I could change due to height restrictions.

Ichmb - not retired, laid off, had to switch to different field.

John Langan and Rich McGrath designed - I'm only the installer. Two very professional and really good guys- highly recommend them.

john p_2

Woke up to no heat this morning...ugh. See attached photo of the boiler with the lower front cover removed to show internal trap.

todd_ecr

2 things. Trap is too high. Cut an inch or two off the end of the drain trap to shorten the height of it.

Your external drain can't be capped off like that. If that drain goes down into the pump below the water line in the pump, it won't drain.

Let me know the combustion numbers when you get them.

john p_2

Will do but just to confirm...you are saying to cut the clear tubing where it is attached to the PVC, cut tubing back 1 or 2" ?

todd_ecr

Yes

todd_ecr

Also, remove the cap

john p_2

Todd, I removed the cap and trimmed the trap discharge hose length 2" which leaves 4-1/2" top of water level to top of inverted trap - need to cut more?

Also, if you look in the trap there is some sort of particles??

john p_2

Sorry forgot to post the pic. Here you go.

todd_ecr

That is enough. If you shorten it too much it will blow the condensate out when it runs in high fire.

I'm not concerned about particles in the trap.

john p_2

Came down to the basement tonight and was off on the same error code....reset it but only ran a short time and went into error again.

Ironman

You really need to get a combustion analyzer on it. There's a good chance you're running too lean.

I'm sure Todd's trying to eliminate the simple things first (as I also would), but without the numbers, you're gonna be stymied.

It could also be the positioning of the electrodes. I had one we put in about five years ago start having total ignition failure suddenly after about two years. Checked everything since the job is about an hour and a half away in the middle of nowhere. Could find no reason for it. Cleaned burner, drain etc, still wouldn't fire. Replaced gas valve, cable. Still no ignition. Slightly repositioned the electrodes and it hasn't missed an ignition since. Combustion numbers were good. Same as when it was commissioned. Don't ask me why it took two years to show up. Maybe Todd knows, but I think we were both scratching our heads at the time.

Ironman

Make sure you have a good ground connection from the electric panel to the boiler. Flame rectification systems rely upon the ground to prove the flame signal.

todd_ecr

I really need combustion numbers. High fire and low fire. John, was it set up with an analyzer when it was commissioned?

john p_2

Thanks guys, I have John Langan and Rich McGrath coming to the house.

john p_2

Ironman - where did you ground to on the boiler?

Ironman

john p said:

Ironman - where did you ground to on the boiler?

Ironman

john p said:

Ironman - where did you ground to on the boiler?

The ground terminal on the high voltage terminal strip. You can't use the armor on bx cable for grounding. You must have a solid ground wire from the panel to the boiler (proper splices are permitted).

john p_2

Bob, sorry but I'm not seeing that. See attached photo...

Also the boiler will run, all zones are calling, the boiler display is showing domestic water temp 140 and climbing, same thing last night but got to 160 and I shut it down as I thought it should have on it's own - possibly another issue with the control module.

Ironman

You've got it with the green wire on the 120v terminals. That wire must be continuous all the way to the bus bar in the electric panel (splices are okay). Make sure you have good splices and connections.

john p_2

I believe like Todd suggested I need a new control module because it's been running fine for months - even through a blizzard.

I'm concern that the domestic water keeps rising and no hot water is getting pumped by the system pump. When I flip the switch for power to the boiler the pump does light up but quickly goes out, assume it's because the domestic side is calling but that rising domestic temp scares me.

john p_2

Update...disconnected DHW TT wire so no call for domestic and boiler seems to be working properly. Will feel better once heating zones have called and been satisfied more than once

kcopp

"It could also be the positioning of the electrodes. I had one we put in about five years ago start having total ignition failure suddenly after about two years. Checked everything since the job is about an hour and a half away in the middle of nowhere. Could find no reason for it. Cleaned burner, drain etc, still wouldn't fire. Replaced gas valve, cable. Still no ignition. Slightly repositioned the electrodes and it hasn't missed an ignition since. Combustion numbers were good. Same as when it was commissioned. Don't ask me why it took two years to show up. Maybe Todd knows, but I think we were both scratching our heads at the time."

After a couple few years the electrodes/ flame sensors are going to show signs of metal fatigue. Since the flame is right on them all the time. After a few years they will bend and not snap back unless cool. Even then you need to replace them every so often.

I have seen this w/ a number of boilers.

SWEI

Ironman said:

That wire must be continuous all the way to the bus bar in the electric panel (splices are okay). Make sure you have good splices and connections.

You can do a quick sanity check by measuring the AC voltage between the green wire and the white wire. If you see more than a volt or two there, it's generally time to investigate.