HELP - NO Heat

JUGHNE

Uncover the wet return until you find the leak. Must be a serious leak if no water at all will go into the boiler.

You can not unscrew any of the return pipe unless you have a union in the line somewhere. That has to be opened first. If you try to unscrew something, that part will try to screw into the next fitting.

You really need a pro.....if you find the leak it will help them out.

JUGHNE

The vent damper opening is the first stage of the firing process. If you don't have water in the boiler that process may not start.

Crow

Big concern there with removing the insulation, should I get it tested for asbestos first? Worried about the white insulation in the first picture I posted with the main vents.

Should I be concerned?

Abracadabra

The white insulation does not appear to me to be asbestos, but if you are in doubt, have it tested/checked by a professional. Can't be sure with a single picture. You should have to really do anything with the insulation... a leak that big will be readily visible thru insulation. I'd concentrate on any underground sections and the sections of the pipe that go thru brick walls. Open the manual fill valve and let it run. How long have you let the water flow?

Crow

Thanks. I am scheduling a pro to come out. I don't have any pipes that go through bricm walls or under ground in my system.

I didn't reall let the water run too long, 30 seconds at most. But I can see where it comes out of the insulation. Not sure if that is where the leak is though. It could be higher up the return because when the leak first happened, steam was coming out and filled the basement. I'm assuming that it is higher because the steam wouldn't come out if water was in the way.

Crow

So two guys came out, pulled the insulation off, found the leak, called their boss and left saying they will get back to me. Also told them I didn't think the auto fill and low water cut off systems work. So they are basically going to cut the pipe around the leak and then either re-die the threads on each end and put a new piece or unthread the pipe from each side. Hope they get back to me tomorrow and can finish it. And isn't too crazy $$

Crow

Old leak patch job blew. The things people hide.

vaporvac

How long is your wet return? I'd seriously consider replacing the entire thing rather than a patch job or you'll be dealing with this every year. I'd imagine the extra cost in pipe is pretty marginal. You could remove the insulation to help speed thing up.

Crow

From the vent to the boiler is probably 12-13 feet with 2-45degree elbows and 2-90degree elbows. Also I have no Hartford loop. Just heard back from the owner of pro company, suggested that I either redo all of the near boiler piping, Hartford loop and some of the controls, or replace the whole boiler and piping. Said he won't do just the repair and I understand completely. But that's a crazy ton of money that I don't have and it was 45 degrees in my house with space heaters two nights ago. Any suggestions?

ChrisJ

Do what you need to do to get it fixed correctly so you can move on and not worry about it.

Crow

It work last year. then this it fired up once this year in October, when the shoddy patch job someone did on the wet return blew and drained all the water out of the tank. It hasn't been fired up since. I'm in central jersey

Crow

I was told that a lot of other companies will come out and do that repair, just not this particular pro, he said he wouldn't fire up the boiler that isn't up to spec.

KC_Jones

https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

In NJ call @Dave0176 and see what he says. Great steam guy.

Bob Bona_4

He's being a responsible contractor. You're extremely lucky the boiler didn't blow up, taking lives with it, with no Hartford Loop. It's also possible there's section cracking.

Crow

I get the safety concerns. What I don't get is how he can tell me that the boiler is no good without looking at it. The guys at my house were litterally in my house for 5 minutes. They ripped insulation off the broken pipe, basically said, "there is your hole, this ain't going to be cheap," went out side, called the owner, came back in told me the owner would call me back. He called me back and basically said that I have no heat and he won't help me unless I replace the boiler. Sorry for being a little skeptical but when someone tells me to replace something without even looking at it, especially when I'm in a desperate situation, I feel like I'm being had.

Crow

When I bought the house, I had an issue with the main vents and an HVAC company told me to replace the boiler then as well. I found this site and found Jstar, who came by and told me not to replace my boiler, he made some minor repairs and I was up and running again. we had a plan to get everything up to speed this fall that just passed. Too bad he is no longer doing this type of work.

Bob Bona_4

Guys might have picked up in a glance there was no Loop, as well as the leaky return (proverbial can of worms) and reported back. Liability concerns.

KC_Jones

KC_Jones said:

https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

In NJ call @Dave0176 and see what he says. Great steam guy.

Call him, AFAIK Joe has been sending a lot of work to him. If Jstar said you don't need to replace the boiler then I would trust that over anything anyone else said. He has been there he has laid eyes on it and he is a true steam expert. Call Dave.

ChrisJ

If Jstar worked on this last year I'd have Dave look at it as well.
Dave's a good man and does good work. I'd trust his judgement.

Fred

Dave is your man. Like others have said, if Jstar said it was OK last year, it likely does not need to be replaced, unless running it dry did some damage. Hard to say but Dave will know!

Crow

Thanks guys. I already have a call into him. Waiting for a return call.

I was home when the water backed out of the boiler. Hoping I caught it in time to not have any damage done. And we can fix this and keep costs down.

Shane_2

The guys took multiple pictures of your boiler and sent them to the owner. The owner is sick as a dog and would have come personally if that were not the case.

It was explained: that this company would not fire this boiler without at least bringing it up to manufacturer minimum near boiler piping. (Adding a Hartford loop) It was also explained that the return piping needed to be replaced. If we replace all the near boiler piping and the returns on a boiler made on 12/7/98 and it leaks, would you want to pay even more to do that work again? Seems kind of like buying a used car that had no oil it, but the owner swears it was never started like that.

The boiler had no water in it, hadn't been in service since October, and the owner was manually feeding water into it every day last winter.

It easy to get cynical here on the wall with a lot of knuckleheads out there. But this is not the case here.

Crow

Not trying to get cynical I just don't trust anyone and I question everything told to me, as you could probably tel on the phone. It fire up once this year, the pipe busted, and when I shut it off water was still pouring out of it. I shut the gas and break to it instantly. I get that you're sick and couldn't make it but neither guy looked much at the boiler besides the rusted jacket. Last year everything was checked out by a very reputable (by every pro who knows who he is) guy. Like I said, we had a plan to get it up to snuff. I would risk half the cost to repipe it to find out if it is the boiler is good. Or we could plug up the hole, fill Er up, and see if it leaks after. Or pop off the exhaust and take a peak inside. I'm willing to pay for the service.

And just like a car with no oil in it, find out why there is no oil in it first before you replace the engine, the most expensive part of it. But, if you have no car to get to work it would be worth the risk to find out if the engine is still good. But you still do the due diligence and pay a mechanic to take a look at it before you are sure you want to buy it or not.

I'm really not trying to bust balls, I just want the thing inspected before I take out a loan base on the word of someone I've never shaken hands with who is in the position of power and knows that not many people can provide what I need during the worst time of year to need said service.

If your car didn't start and you brought it to the dealer and they told you that the engine needed to be replaced would you just do it without having an expert explain why it is necessary and without doing any outside research?

I have been sleeping in a 45 degree house for the last couple nights. I had been hoping the space heaters would work out while I saved enough money to have someone come out, though I had been trying to reach out to my last guy prior to this cold streak and see why he thinks. Forgive me if I'm not gonna jump on the first offer to spend that much money based on speculation. Aren't there other ways to find out what shape the boiler is in?

Crow

I also didn't put water in it every day. I went down and checked the water level everyday. One of the things we had planned to do was to replace the low water cut off and auto fill. I was Tom that they may not be working by my pro. But I never wanted to try and find out if they did so I kept a keen eye on the water figuring that this would have been something we would take care of near the end of this passed fall

ChrisJ

@Shane your company services steamers in NJ?

Jamie Hall

Two thoughts, good buddy. The first one is that no professional is going to make an assessment of the the boiler or the rest of the system without looking at it -- and, quite legitimately, charging for the looking. The second is... how to put this... if you don't trust anybody, the odds are that this is apparent to those to whom you speak, and they will reciprocate in kind.

Crow

Thanks Jamie pal, that's what I'm saying. No one looked at the boiler and assessed it, nor did I get charged. They were in my house for maybe 10 minutes including locating the leak. I got a phone call the next day from the owner telling me I need to replace the boiler. is it wrong to want a little more attention paid to the matter before i agree to the work?

ChrisJ

Crow

Hatteras guy. Thanks for the support but that's not what I'm trying to say at all about this particular contractor. I'm not into putting down someone's knowledge on a subject that they are much more well versed in than I. He is a reputable person from what I've read. I called him back and tried to get and estimate for replacing the near boiler piping the proper way. I know what I was quoted for it for my last pro and that was the plan any ways for this year.

Crow

He was sick and couldn't make it out and mentioned that he wouldn't feel comfortable firing up my boiler with just the repair to the busted pipe. He wanted to bring it up to spec first but explained that it would be a waste if he did that and find out that the boiler is shot. He did offer to quote me for the near boiler piping. But at that point I had gotten the feeling that we were no longer on good terms because I told him earlier that I felt like this was a little bit high pressure sales.

BobC

Listen to George he knows of that which he speaks.

Bob

Crow

OK jeez!!!!

Fred

BobC said:

Listen to George he knows of that which he speaks.

Bob

When he wasn't trippin on a little sometin sometin

Shane_2

@Crow - Please get some other opinions, absolutely no hard feelings. There was no pressure intended. In my opinion you would be best served with a new boiler, drop header, Hartford loop, new return and piece of mind.

@ChrisJ - Yes, pretty much only Monmouth County the last few years. I've had a find a contractor ad since 2008 or so.

@Hatterasguy - Wow

Charlie from wmass

Hartford loops are only not needed on counter flow systems.

I removed my disagree from your post as aside from the Hartford loop part the idea of not at least trying to get the heat going in January is a load of horse pucks.

If the guys hear say use David then use David or whoever else they know in your area.

Crow

Big shout out to @EzzyT and his gang for coming by last Thursday and repiping my 20 year old boiler. They went above and beyond and finished it quicker than quoted. Just in time to stay warm for the storm. Thanks again.

Crow

it is running well minus some balancing and more flushing to get the water as clean as possible it was pretty muddy in there. I don't think this boiler was thought for a long time before I bought the house. Very shocked find out the hard way just how bad of shape it was in after just one winter in the house. The jacket is in bad shape and usually throws people off but from what two different pros have told me, the cast sections are in pretty good shape.

EzzyT

We skimmed and flushed as much mud as we could out of the boiler and dropped in Steamaster tablets in it to clean the inside of the boiler up