Hiring Mechanics... Is there anyone out there at all these days?

ProblemSolver

I went to college in my early 30's for marketing (1990). They were teaching that this country was going to shift from a Industry based country to a Service based country. Boy, were they right. The Service based trades pay an average twenty thousand more than the building trades do, with a faster advance to make more, plus better benefits. The Service based trades are more attractive to our youngsters than the building trades are; so why would they pursue a labor type job over a non-labor job? It's not that our kids are getting lazy, it's just the non-labor job is more attractive.
Over my 33 years in this HVAC trade, I never understood why we all make so little; but our trade branches out to all the other building trades, and we have to know: (electrical, pipe fitting, carpentry, duct work, control wiring, structural fabricating, engineering, law of physics), just to name a few. But we don't make any more than they do. And our tool collection is much greater as-well. So think about it; why would our bright kids get into this trade?

SlamDunk

My observation is, a lot of 'not so bright' kids take the jobs and make everyone else also look 'not so bright'. That perception thing......Why pay a dummy more when you can pay three dummies less than that one bright kid?

srd357

It makes it even tougher when we have to compete with government sponsored welfare. I have read that 11 states now have more people on welfare, than workers. I've been in this trade for 47 years and have watched the decline of the American worker. It's not worth getting out of bed anymore.

ChrisJ

Let the political arguments begin.

Lance

Someone once asked me where are all the trees. Another asked me where is all the money. The answer was the same, the money and trees got used up and no one thought to, or wanted to replace them with new. A farmer plants every year so he will have a crop every year. And some crops take years before they can be available to harvest. A human crop requires very careful nurturing, training and experience. Experience is the most important because of free will. We can choose to believe or not theory, dogma, testimony, but we can never deny the truth of personal experience and results.
Too many masters in our trades chose not to build the future crops, did not want the apprentice to get licensed, did not want to advance them. Some masters did and we have many trained but not enough to keep the trades alive when the economy begins to expand. But we did not get help from government or society when social direction was pushed to increase students to pursue an academic career. Many wrong people in control of public schools allowed skill training and experience be removed from the school. What good are the liberal arts if we don't have practical abilities and experience to apply them?
Who is teaching what works and what doesn't so we don't have to hire the uneducated in the trades?

Often we say "You get what you pay for". but we should remember "We don't get what we don't pay for."
If it takes 6-8 years to make a master, and the training can start as early as 10 years old, why not start a new crop now and hope in 10 years we can replenish with quality. A farmer knows this, why doesn't our school system know this? Why do parents allow the schools to degrade. Did we raise the wrong crop of leaders?

Who wants to teach hvac and plumbing in fifth grade? Oh and you science teachers out there get it right. H20 does not always freeze at 32F. It varies. Water can be liquid at 25F. Experience has proved it. Stop the lies and start the truth. You don't have to be untruthful, inaccurate, mistaken, or even tell half truths just because the kids are young. And yes teachers may have been taught wrong. I would say almost 25% of our worlds knowledge is flawed. What, do you think we know it all? Where is the wisdom in that?
Just thinking.

Steamhead

srd357 said:

I have read that 11 states now have more people on welfare, than workers.

Which states?

ChrisJ

Steamhead said:

srd357 said:

I have read that 11 states now have more people on welfare, than workers.

Which states?

Not only is it wrong, it's false information from January 2013 and to be honest even if it was true I don't see how it relates to the quality of tradesmen.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/deathspiral.asp

devtheplumber

Whats up everyone. First time posting. I saw this in my email and had to jump in. I am 34 years old and have been plumbing since 02. It has been the best decision I ever made. I spent several years goofing off in college at my parents expense like an ahole. Came home got lucky with a plumbing job from my uncle. Got my masters license 2 years ago. Honestly going thru night school I was the youngest back 10 yrs ago. When I do my CEUs I still am the youngest by many years. For some reason younger guys do not see plumbing as a viable future. Wow are they wrong. I have many friends that have great jobs after college, I still bring home more money. I guess it was just the way my father raised me to have a strong work ethic. I never played video games or had the internet and all the tech kids have now. Played all sports, built crap around the house, stuff like that. Society has screwed the future of hard working mechanics. You dont see kids out playing building forts. I recently took a photo of 7 kids on a bball court playing on their cell phones. Basketball sitting next to the hoop. Its horrible.
I recently dragged my 26 year old brother into this. He had no mechanical ability until working with me. Now he loves this. ****, you should have seen his face the first time I let him solder.

We need to get the youth in here.

For all you old timers out there still kicking it daily in the plumbing trenches, my hats off to each and everyone of you. It is hard work and appreciated by me your fellow plumber.

5223levi

I clicked through the headline story from my Inbox and was caught by this topic, "Where are the Mechanics?"

I’m up here in Canada in a little town this week working with two contractor and up here and with our work they are on the path to building Techs. One is a plumbing, heating and cooling shop and the other shop builds and installs their own custom kitchen and bathroom cabinetry.

The answer to how that is possible is they have been taught how to recruit, hire, orient, train and retain willing people and build them from scratch vs. always trying to find lightning in a bottle or rewiring castoffs from other companies.

It’s hard work but it speaks to what Dan Holohan taught me so many years ago that staffing is like a train. People hop on, people hop off, some people you kick off the train and some jump off and if the game is good enough some will take the whole ride with you.

Hiring on willingness and having the ability to provide skills training vs. hiring on skills and hoping they’re willing is the only way I know how to do it first at my shop when I was working in my family plumbing, heating, cooling and electrical business and now at a lot of the contracting shops I’ve worked with through the years.

FYI, Ellen Rohr, industry consultant, had PHC News learn about what we’ve accomplished at Zoom on this subject that I call Staffing Power!. Here’s the link to this story that speaks to offering a career not a job.

http://digital.phcnews.com/app.php?RelId=6.1.4.5&BookCode=20150901&lang=enu

We, as contractors, have to be careful about what we believe is so because sometimes that doesn't help us. It's goofy but I totally understand it. I was like that a long time ago and would have remained that way if not from great people like Dan Holohan pulling my blinders off and showing me a different way.

Dan, I want to thank you for putting me on the right path, my friend.

ProblemSolver

5223levi said:

We, as contractors, have to be careful about what we believe is so because sometimes that doesn't help us. It's goofy but I totally understand it. I was like that a long time ago and would have remained that way if not from great people like Dan Holohan pulling my blinders off and showing me a different way.

Dan, I want to thank you for putting me on the right path, my friend.

You are a rarity, and I believe your father had a lot to do with it.

JasonRogers_2

We have also been slammed for a solid year now. My business has been running an add for qualified personnel for the same amount of time! I have had some good hires and I am very thankful for my guys and there efforts. BUT - I have also had some really poor hires and really REALLY poor interviews. It seems that qualified mechanics (for any trade) are just no longer around. In my area (southwest Fairfield county CT) it is so expensive to live therefore we have to offer alot more to keep guys interested or to stay on ship (Trust me - I give and I pay). Which means we need to charge more and probably (besides Manhattan) the most expensive rates in the country. Not just because of labor but everything that comes with proper business as I am sure you all know.
NOW - I agree with all that has been said about "HACKS" and undercutting... The funniest example I can give is when you bid on town or state work (which is prevailing wage if you didn't know) it always says somewhere on the first 2 pages "This job will be awarded to the cheapest bidder". Pretty pathetic of our states and towns.
My theory is: A guy can open a legal business (I can only speak of my trade - Plumbing) in CT without an actual plumbing license. He CAN gather all the proper insurance, have a van (with lettering), and even employees but still a license is not required. Therefore there are no laws binding him to a project because he cannot pull a permit. He burns your house down, its on you (please correct if I am wrong) and like I said CAN have the insurance but they usually do not. So we have no one governing them or chasing them around and they can do the work cheaper since they do not have as many expenses or any at all. So in this area we have a large influx of one man operations. I am not against them because I was also there at one point but I did have a license, insurance, etc... It just would be nice if the state would offer some sort of protection to the legitimate business owner. Not throw us under the bus and tax the crap out of us (Thanks Malloy!!!). BLAH BLAH BLAH - I CAN GO ON FOREVER..
I have had trouble with new (younger) hires feeling entitled. A good book to read as a boss and of course, anyone of an older generation which is interested in this new generation is "Generation Me" by Jean M Twenge. It is a good read and explains what we are doing to support this new trend.

jonny88

Good article,but as a drain cleaner your are limited as to what you can do.Snaking drains will get monotonous after a while.Do you guys offer your techs classes on DWV and are they working under a lic plumber,that way eventually they can take there own test.On a lighter note they sure are some clean clothes.Get into a 10 inch house trap and show them some real s**t.

Intplm.

SlamDunk said:

Sure, an owner deserves the rewards for their risks. No argument from me on that point. But let's face it, unions are only in a small portion of the country. And, they are getting smaller. During recent economic downturns, community colleges pumped out HVAC techs & and truck drivers by the hundreds after factories shut down and people had to be retrained. That's affects the supply /demand thing. Too many people in any market will suppress wages. The expression "a dime a dozen" comes to mind. I can see why a business owner would want a large pool of qualified candidates but by the same token, I can also see why young people wouldn't want to be in a pool that is a dime a dozen.

Intplm.

37 years.37 years I have been in this trade. I have helped many and done a lot. One thing I have noticed is how "we" behave toward the new guys.. I have seen plenty of bad behavior toward apprentices in our trade. When I was a Voc. Ed. instructor many years ago. I received a lot of negative feed back from my students. They said that the companies that hired them were expecting a mechanic right out of school, and not a apprentice. The verbal abuse that I have both seen and had reported to me over these many years is heart breaking. This, with many of the other true issues that we are having, about hiring new people is going to have to stop. Seems our society, and the reputations that our trade builds for itself are earned by our behavior.
This brings something to mind from many years ago when reading a PMagazine article.
The quote from surveyed students was; "out of the many occupations that you would like to pursue" ," number 150 was farming". number 149 was.....? Yup, you guessed it. Ours.
We must rebuild and shore up our reputations. I believe as a whole, we are a most honorable group.

BobC

I faced some of that when I went to work for the PO repairing mail sorting machines. I was on the 3rd shift and we processed all the days incoming mail, if a machine went down it had to be fixed fast or the mail might miss it's dispatch. A few of the older guys were upset that I walked in the door as a tech with zero experience as a postal mechanic (I had nearly 40 years experience as a tech on military electronics) but most were willing to show me the ropes.

After a short while we settled into a routine where they would help me with some of the more obtuse mechanical issues and i would handle any tough electrical and computer issues; it was a symbiotic relationship because we learned from each other.

For the last 4 years I worked for them I trained a lot of new hires (both mechanics and technicians). The boss sent them to me because he knew I'd train them and wouldn't tell them to figure it out on there own - the faster I got them up to speed the more use they would be around the equipment.

Whenever i caught one of the guys giving them crap about knowing what to do I stopped it cold by asking if THEY were born knowing what they knew now.

When I retired we all went over to the local watering hall and the latest guy I trained thanked me for being patient and explaining how the equipment worked. I told him that while I was teaching him, I was learning from him because of his experience - it was a two way street.

Bob

Canucker

BobC said:

After a short while we settled into a routine where they would help me with some of the more obtuse mechanical issues and i would handle any tough electrical and computer issues; it was a symbiotic relationship because we learned from each other.

For the last 4 years I worked for them I trained a lot of new hires (both mechanics and technicians). The boss sent them to me because he knew I'd train them and wouldn't tell them to figure it out on there own - the faster I got them up to speed the more use they would be around the equipment.

Whenever i caught one of the guys giving them crap about knowing what to do I stopped it cold by asking if THEY were born knowing what they knew now.

When I retired we all went over to the local watering hall and the latest guy I trained thanked me for being patient and explaining how the equipment worked. I told him that while I was teaching him, I was learning from him because of his experience - it was a two way street.

Bob

This. This is the attitude towards the younger generation that has worked for me in my industry. The best supervisors I had, before I became one, were the ones that took the time to train me without ridiculing me for not knowing. In my line of work, you still need at least a year of in house training before you're much of a help on the shop floor beyond cleaning, no matter the amount of schooling you've had. I have been thanked by some of the younger people for taking the time to show them what they need to know and for being fair. I usually thank them for showing some drive and telling them it's in my best interest to train them as my job gets easier when I don't have to share a brain with everyone on a regular basis.

RobG

I live and work in the country. I have found that the best labor pool is young farmers. They are not afraid of hard work, are used to getting up early and are sick of shoveling **** and making hay. Once they start seeing the money that can be made it seals the deal. The hardest part is getting them to go to trade school in their off time.

Intplm.

The fact is we are losing the "job pool race" to this electronics revolution that has become main stream in our industry?? We predicted this 30+ years ago. We talked about it then and we are talking about now. It's a great subject but what can we do about it? I'm going to be retiring soon. I'm on the back end of my career. As our society grows all these people our going to need our skill set more, and more. Predictions of our trade(s) in the future?
I would like to hear some more thoughts on that.

Jimbo_5

Well, John, also coming from Staten Island back in the day, running a '66 Goat with 3-duces we may very well have passed one another either on South Ave, Arden Ave, or Seaside Blvd. Now hear we are turning wrenches, brazing tubing, and installing boilers. Life goes on. What ever happened to Wetson's?

SlamDunk

predictions of our trades in the future: They will remain the same as they always have been. Work will always need to be done. a lot of it will be done by knuckleheads. Many knuckleheads will someday become pros. I wouldnt worry too much until the majority of manufacturers for the trades start going under. Hire three, keep one. it is ok to be a hardass ( aka demanding) but there is no room for ridicule. Ridicule comes from low self esteem.

Jimbo_5

Yeah, some daze after work I do feel old as dirt. Went to 2 car shows yesterday, one in Point Pleasant & the other in Sea Side, and looking at some of those '60s & '70s cars took me back to Wetson's, White Castle in Newark, and Mitchel:s in Brooklyn. Especially hearing the roar of horse power shaking the ground and smell of those engines. Now it's all about Jap junk with 4-bangers fueled by laughing gas for the kicker. Guess we're all getting old. God bless America!

Charles Brand

It is well documented that there is a national shortage of technicians in the HVAC industry and other major trades. Yet, time after time, companies in our industry continue to actively look for experienced technicians. The truth is, that any good technician with experience is already working for another company. The ones, who are not working, are generally not worth hiring. If they couldn’t make it with one of your competitors, what makes you think they can make a positive contribution to your company?
There is a logical step by step solution to the manpower shortage in our industry. Step 1 is to stop trying to hire experienced technicians. They just aren’t out there. Einstein once said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. The only answer is to attract new people into the industry, people that have the qualities necessary to be successful and to teach them how to do the job.
Step 2 is to ask yourself what are the qualities of a good technician? The answer is that good technicians have 3 things, strong mechanical ability, good attitude and work ethic and reasonably good people skills. That leads to the obvious question, are people with those qualities out there and if so how can I find them? The answer is that they are out there and through the use of effective employment ads, you can find them.
Step 3 is to write a compelling employment ad and place it in the correct job boards and media outlets for your geographic location. The key to writing a powerful employment ad is to describe the person you are looking for rather than the job. Our industry has a lot to offer prospective employees including high pay, benefits, independent work environment, challenging work and job security. If you write compelling employment ads you will be amazed at how many people will be interested in working for your company.
Step 4 is to screen applicants, for mechanical ability, attitude, people skills, driving record, criminal background and get effective references from previous employers. While this sounds difficult, with a little knowledge and imagination it is all very possible.
After screening all the applicants Step 5 is to interview and hire only those candidates who have the skills, attitude and desire to be excellent technicians.
Once you hire the right people, Step 6 is to teach them how to do the job. Generally, this is done using a mix of field experience plus a powerful online training program like the one offered by hvacredu.net. You might ask, what happens if I train them and they leave? The answer is, what happens if you don’t train them and they stay? In order to do a good job for your customers you must properly train your technicians. To insure that you get a return on your training investment, use a reimbursement agreement for all technicians who participate in your training program.
This systematic approach to hiring was developed, using trial and error, over a period of 14 years in my own business. Virtually every employee in my company was hired using this system. Since I provided you with the road-map detailed above, you can do it your business in a lot less than 14 years.

BobC

This is a problem that is facing many companies because they have bought into the myth you have to find THE person who is a perfect fit for your job opening. IF that person exists he is working for someone else and if he leaves that company why is he leaving and what makes you think he will stay with your company?

When I came into the job market out of school companies wanted to hire eager competent people. They all knew they would have to train them to work on their equipment and that was actually a positive thing because you could train them the right way. You did not have to deal with people who had been trained to do things wrong. This system worked well up through the 80's

The whole employment scene has been warped by the advent of human resource departments and the worshiping of MBA's who have nobodies interests at heart but their own, all the MBA's I've known don't give a damn about the company who is paying them - they will jump ship at the first opportunity. I recognize that most of you are working for small shops and don't have to deal with all of this but a lot of the people out there have already been warped by this mindset.

If you need a new mechanic all you need is an honest capable person who is willing to work and to learn. It is up to you to train that person - don't bother looking for someone who has already been trained because in many cases his training will not mesh with the way your company does things.

Bob

fixitguy

I've had great luck hiring only women. There are a lot of middle aged women out there with degrees who are looking to reenter the workplace. My current assistant has been with me more than 6 years and is the most useful tool in my van. Women helpers learn fast, are more organized, don't steal equipment and materials. Possibly the best thing is that they are a great public face for my company. The customers love them, it certainly softens the image of the greasy guy with the wrench. Many customers are older people and women and they relate instantly.

Charles Brand

I applaud you for being open to hiring women. However, I respectfully suggest that not all women "learn fast" are "more organized", "don't steal" and relate well to customers. While those are all admirable qualities for a technician, they are not unique to either women or men. Some people have them and some people don't. The bottom line is that good technicians have strong mechanical ability, a good attitude and work ethic and reasonably good people skills. If you can find someone (either male or female) who has those qualities and you are willing to invest the time and money to train them properly, you will have an employee who can be a valuable asset for many years.