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Bangin all night

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Comments

  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    mungrin said:

    At least I have some time to get it done right. Think any of those pipes could be re-used in the proper installation? I wondernhow much thos will all cost to get it redone. Thanks again guys.

    The likelihood that you can get them apart to salvage any of them is slim. Besides, the time it would take to try to clean and reuse some of them is prohibitive. Time costs more than a few pieces of pipe.
    SWEI
  • Brewbeer
    Brewbeer Member Posts: 616
    The pipe insulation looks like aerogel, which typically contains asbestos
    Hydronics inspired homeowner with self-designed high efficiency low temperature baseboard system and professionally installed mod-con boiler with indirect DHW. My system design thread: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154385
    System Photo: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/79/451e1f19a1e5b345e0951fbe1ff6ca.jpg
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,178
    Yes definitly counterflow, and like I said earlier a piping atrocity.
    Were is your location?
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,231
    Aerogel? That can't be right.
    Aerogel is it's own thing and is an insane insulator. I wanted to use it on one of my monitor top cabinets until I saw the cost.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    SWEI
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,178
    Here is how Crown recommends their minimum piping requirements, also note the little asterisk showing the second supply riser as optional, I like that as I would be using the second supply. I also wish all companies added the second photo in their manuals, but then again a lot of shoemakers don't even read the instructions anyway.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,231
    Am I the only one that doesn't like the line drawings in newer manuals?

    Burnham used to have actual pipe drawings but now they switched it to that newer style as well. I think Weil still has actual piping drawings but I could be wrong? They did in 2011 when I did mine.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,796
    Chris as someone that does drafting for a living I can't understand it myself. It's actually easier with modern CAD systems to do the pipe drawings than it is to do the line drawings.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    ChrisJ
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,495
    There is no rational reason to use a line drawing unless you want to make it difficult to understand. If one our draftsmen did something like that they would soon learn why not to do it, the purpose of a drawing is to make everything clear.

    It's almost like they are trying to confuse the installer so they can sidestep any issues that arise.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    ChrisJ
  • Brewbeer
    Brewbeer Member Posts: 616
    My bad, it's called "air cell" not aerogel.
    Hydronics inspired homeowner with self-designed high efficiency low temperature baseboard system and professionally installed mod-con boiler with indirect DHW. My system design thread: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154385
    System Photo: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/79/451e1f19a1e5b345e0951fbe1ff6ca.jpg
    ChrisJ
  • mungrin
    mungrin Member Posts: 22
    Thank you all once again. The pipes are covered in absestos. Thos is actually my next project. I will be searching for someone to re-pipe my boiler. I live in Binghamton. Would just like to exactly what I should tell them. So far I need to tell them I need a hartford loop. What else?
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,511

    @mungrin
    Look at the attached document on page 1 to see the difference between a gravity return system and a counterflow. A counterflow system does not require a Hartford loop. I believe from what I've seen in your pics that yours is a counterflow but it's not piped right.
    The banging in your rad is probably because its riser pipe is trapping water as others have pointed out. You'll have to remove the insulation from that line and put a level on it to confirm that it's pitched downward away from the rad. It could also be internally clogged even if it's pitched correctly. If the radiator valve doesn't fully open, that could also be the cause.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    jonny88Zman
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,362
    no test needed you can bet it is asbestos. As stated you have a Counter flow system, It requires different piping than the average boiler and actually no Hartford loop as there are not any wet returns with this type of system. Weil McLain is the only manufacturer I know of that has a good diagram of how to pipe this type of system in their installation manual. It is in the manual for the Peg gas boilers. Yes it is fine to pipe your crown in the same fashion. Are you in Worcester, because it looks like a Worcester installation? Every region has it's favorite mistakes. Vents on the header seems to be popular there.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • mungrin
    mungrin Member Posts: 22
    I am in Binghamton Ny. To make a long story short the boiler was installed by someone who maybe wasn't qualified but I had no heat and I was absolutely desperate. It was a really depressing time when I bought this house but we did make it through the winter warm. I am grateful for all the advice.
    Charlie from wmass
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,178
    Here Weil McLains instructions to piping a counterflow system.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
    Charlie from wmass
  • RobG
    RobG Member Posts: 1,850
    Dave0176 said:

    Here Weil McLains instructions to piping a counterflow system.

    The instructions are sooooo complicated. I can see how a even a Pro could screw it up, who knows what a header is? And at least 14 inches above the water line? What the heck does that mean? :*
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,231
    I assume that's sarcasm? :)
    It's gotta be.....

    BTW am I the only one that thinks the wrong thing every time I read the title to this thread?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    jonny88
  • RobG
    RobG Member Posts: 1,850
    ChrisJ said:

    BTW am I the only one that thinks the wrong thing every time I read the title to this thread?

    Nope!
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,362
    Rob I have never seen a counterflow piped this way in the wild unless I installed it.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    RobG
  • RobG
    RobG Member Posts: 1,850
    edited September 2015
    Charlie from wmass said:

    Rob I have never seen a counterflow piped this way in the wild unless I installed it.


    As long as you connect all the holes in the boiler to the existing piping it MUST have been done right?

    Seriously though, if manufacturers placed a sticker on the top of the boiler showing the recommended piping it might help for people that don't believe in opening the manual. Homeowners as well would be able to easily check their work. It could be one sticker with several layouts and the smart one (if there is one) could just circle the correct layout with a sharpie and let the worker bees work.
    Ironman
  • mungrin
    mungrin Member Posts: 22
    Easy for you to say. I haven't even changed my first pipe yet :)
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,362
    or they can hire a pro who knows what he is doing and quit hiring the hacks.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    SWEIRobG
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    http://www.comfort-calc.net/Steam_Piping_Donts.cfm should help explain some of the issues mentioned here.
    Homeowner3
  • RobG
    RobG Member Posts: 1,850
    Charlie from wmass said:

    or they can hire a pro who knows what he is doing and quit hiring the hacks.

    The trouble is weeding out the hacks. Most people end up here AFTER the sales guy has made his pitch and the hacks have already done the improper installation.
    SWEICanuckerGordy
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,362
    I have been to several calls for replacements where they did not find me here on Heatinghelp, and everyone included the line " non of the other people said that was needed, or looked at my radiators. " but I am preeching to the choir.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    RobG
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Sorry but no steam guy was on site when that thing was installed, someone called a steam boiler...also no steam guy in his right mind will touch anything in your system without first repairing the thing in the basement some hack installed and called a steam boiler....sorry but just had to chime in here...FYI get some real insulation on those pipes when all is done...

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