opinions on likelihood of catastrophic failure

rtv

I am/was thinking of removing and replacing the bushing from the 2" T which provides the riser(1/2") for the main vents. As it is cold outside and i prefer it not to be inside, What are my chances of getting this done without major death and destruction? I don't think this has moved since installation in the '20s. The only tool
i have capable of grabbing the hex is a 24" pipe wrench. I'd be in deep s*** if the T broke! Any thoughts?

SlamDunk

85% chance you will not die from this. Personally, I would wait until after heating season (2 more months?) but if you cant, soak it really well with a penetrant like Aerokroil for a couple days. You will want a 2 or 3 foot pipe to fit over you 24" wrench for more leverage. You will need a second wrench to place on the tee as to counter the removal torque. Good luck!

ChrisJ

At first I thought you said you wanted to move your main vents out side like that one post a while back and I started laughing.

But then I re-read it and realized what you meant.

I doubt that bushing will be going anywhere. Curious why you want to replace it, is 1/2" not enough?

If it was mine, I'd unscrew the 1/2" pipe and cut slots into it but stop before you get to the outer threads.

Then try to crack / break it.

I mean, you can try with a wrench. If a 24" wrench damages that 2" tee or it's piping you need a lot more help than a new bushing. I'd be using a 48" on that if anything but like I said, I doubt it's going to move.

rtv

yeah...i was afraid that it wouldn't move and i'd mess up the T.
The cutting idea might work. I was going to change the riser to
3/4 or 1" for the venting ability..so i could add a 3rd gorton#2
i guess maybe i should wait a few months...probably 4..it's michigan

rtv

do you suppose the bushing is cast? maybe i could break it?

ChrisJ

rtv said:

do you suppose the bushing is cast? maybe i could break it?

Even if it is, I'd cut it first.

Boiler Talk

I removed a radiator valve that was probably installed 80+ years ago. It was on a 1.25" pipe. The valve served no radiator, but was leaking and I capped the pipe later on. I added a four foot pipe over a two foot wrench to grab the valve. I also had a second two foot wrench to hold the pipe. I had to used my hands and feet in opposition. This was a real workout. I like swimming more than doing this kind of workout, but I did it.

Jamie Hall

How many vents are you going to put on that thing? That half inch as is will vent a lot of air -- unless you're looking at like 4 Gorton#2s, I'd go with what you've got.

rtv

a workout i'm sure. Dont think i can another wrench on it and still pull on the extended one. I think the two 2" pipes in the T should hold it pretty well

KC_Jones

Don't ever wrench on pipes unless you are using 2 wrenches...that is a big no no.

ChrisJ

Boiler Talk said:

I removed a radiator valve that was probably installed 80+ years ago. It was on a 1.25" pipe. The valve served no radiator, but was leaking and I capped the pipe later on. I added a four foot pipe over a two foot wrench to grab the valve. I also had a second two foot wrench to hold the pipe. I had to used my hands and feet in opposition. This was a real workout. I like swimming more than doing this kind of workout, but I did it.

Brass on steel is different than steel on steel or iron on iron.

rtv

i just read somewhere on the site that the venting w/ 1/2" was at just about a max for 2 Gorton #2s. ive got 60ft of 2" and 20ft of 3" to vent so i thought a 3rd gorton was in order.

rtv

KC....not sure how i would be able as one person..need to enlist help i guess!

KC_Jones

There are ways....it takes some practice. All that pipe may look sturdy enough, but if you have ever had the experience of a fitting cracking from stress. Well let's just say it isn't fun. The second wrench is needed to take the stress you are exerting trying to undo the bushing. Otherwise you basically have no idea what is taking the stress and you will find the weakest link...or you might not. Do you go to Vegas often?

ChrisJ

When I removed my radiator valve for the livingroom I did it with 1 wrench.

Didn't care, if the piping to the main failed it didn't matter and I really didn't think the 2" main was going to fail.

But, I suppose anything is possible. In that spot you can use two wrenches. On what I was doing you would've needed two people and I didn't have that option. If I recall, I asked someone named KC to come help me and he said no.

rtv

not much of a gambler...actually there is no gambling to it...i ALWAYS lose!

KC_Jones

ChrisJ said:

When I removed my radiator valve for the livingroom I did it with 1 wrench.

Didn't care, if the piping to the main failed it didn't matter and I really didn't think the 2" main was going to fail.

But, I suppose anything is possible. In that spot you can use two wrenches. On what I was doing you would've needed two people and I didn't have that option. If I recall, I asked someone named KC to come help me and he said no.

Sorry Chris I have been a disappointment to many over the years I will just add you to the list. I don't remember you asking about that though?! I thought you wanted to wire my boiler in exchange for me sanding those stairs..... And now the thread is getting hijacked.

rtv

talk about a workout...sanding stairs! yikes

Fred

Cut a wedge out of the bushing, being careful not to cut into the Tee threads, and take a punch and knock the wedge out. The rest will turn out, almost by hand.

ChrisJ

KC_Jones said:

ChrisJ said:

When I removed my radiator valve for the livingroom I did it with 1 wrench.

Didn't care, if the piping to the main failed it didn't matter and I really didn't think the 2" main was going to fail.

But, I suppose anything is possible. In that spot you can use two wrenches. On what I was doing you would've needed two people and I didn't have that option. If I recall, I asked someone named KC to come help me and he said no.

Sorry Chris I have been a disappointment to many over the years I will just add you to the list. I don't remember you asking about that though?! I thought you wanted to wire my boiler in exchange for me sanding those stairs..... And now the thread is getting hijacked.

Oh how I would've loved to wire that boiler instead.

rtv

Fred,
you're saying a wedge.. saw blade Horizontal (parallel
to the ground) or vertically?

KC_Jones

This is opposite of your situation, but the idea is similar. Cut a "wedge" of of the bushing and the rest will come loose fairly easy. You just need to be very careful in either situation not to cut into the threads.

Fred

rtv said:

Fred,
you're saying a wedge.. saw blade Horizontal (parallel
to the ground) or vertically?

Yes, two vertical cuts. Try to go as far down the bushing as you can and then just punch it out.

rtv

probably cut the whole top off w/an angle grinder so i can get a blade in

ChrisJ

rtv said:

probably cut the whole top off w/an angle grinder so i can get a blade in

How are you going to get a hold of it with a wrench if you need to ?

Fred

You should be able to cut right under the Hex with a sawsall. That would make it a little easier but I think if that 1/2 inch pipe comes out, that will give you enough room to use a short blade in there.
EDIT: @rtv On second thought, I'd leave that top on to give you something solid to punch on. If you cut it too low, you'll have to wrestle with trying to get the wedge out at the thread line of the Tee.

rtv

hmmm. yeah. there i go again thinkin' i had an idea

Fred

Looking at the amount of thread above the Tee, I'd say you only have maybe 4 threads to cut below the Tee.

Jamie Hall

rtv said:

i just read somewhere on the site that the venting w/ 1/2" was at just about a max for 2 Gorton #2s. ive got 60ft of 2" and 20ft of 3" to vent so i thought a 3rd gorton was in order.

At some risk of getting drummed out of the regiment here... or burned as a heretic...

Weigh what you are doing very very very carefully. Is a reduction in pressure of perhaps an ounce per square inch worth it? Really? Are you sure?

As a reference, I vent a total of 120 feet of 3" quite satisfactorily with 1 Gorton #2 and 1 Hoffman 75... Yes, the pressure reaches about 3 ounces. Uh... so what?

ChrisJ

Jamie Hall said:

rtv said:

i just read somewhere on the site that the venting w/ 1/2" was at just about a max for 2 Gorton #2s. ive got 60ft of 2" and 20ft of 3" to vent so i thought a 3rd gorton was in order.

At some risk of getting drummed out of the regiment here... or burned as a heretic...

Weigh what you are doing very very very carefully. Is a reduction in pressure of perhaps an ounce per square inch worth it? Really? Are you sure?

As a reference, I vent a total of 120 feet of 3" quite satisfactorily with 1 Gorton #2 and 1 Hoffman 75... Yes, the pressure reaches about 3 ounces. Uh... so what?

To me 3oz is noisy and annoying.
Other than that I currently have nothing.

SlamDunk

in the photo, it looks like you can use the wall to hold the wrench in place to counter removal torque. you probably wont need it but you'll get mad if you're stronger than you think ( with a 4' persuader pipe) and you crack the tee.

icesailor

Isn't that 2" tee a Malleable tee? The one next to it is a cast iron tee. I doubt that you could crack or break that tee with a 10# sledge hammer. You could stretch it, but you won't break it.

I'd use a #4 Heat Wrench on it with a yellow MAPP flamethrower on the other side. After a few days of soaking with Aerokroil. Then, the heat wrench. Then, after a rest, cool it down with the Kroil.

If you alternate a few cycles with the heat wrench, then try two 3' pipe wrenches. If you're not experienced, it is definitely a 2 person job. You need one wrench on the tee to back the other up. It really helps if you have a second person. You need someone to get the wrench on the flat of the bushing and hold it there until you can pull. The location of the Flat looks like you won't have a lot of separation between the two wrenches. You need to pull against the bushing and brace against the fitting.

If you choose this method, and, use a heat wrench, you can hit the edge/rim of the tee with a 16 )z. Beater hammer. It might jar the rust loose in the threads.

I always try to get it out first. I save the Sawzall for later if I need it. You'd be surprised how easy it might come out. I've removed bigger by myself in far more difficult places.

Also, if you have to stand on a ladder, cut it out. Its dangerous. If you can raise yourself to having the fitting at chest level, its safe. If it is shoulder height and you have to stand on a ladder, you can pull your shoulder out or if a wrench slips, you can fall.

You can also use some 2" X 24" to 36" steel pipe handle extenders to increase leverage. Then, you REALLY need help. Don't use PVC pipe. It will shatter with no notice.

Fred

@icesailor , I'm scared of you

Jamie Hall

Hatterasguy said:

Jamie Hall said:

As a reference, I vent a total of 120 feet of 3" quite satisfactorily with 1 Gorton #2 and 1 Hoffman 75... Yes, the pressure reaches about 3 ounces. Uh... so what?

Can I save this statement and quote it in the future?

This constant call for one Gorton 2 for every 20' of 2" is getting tiresome.

I'm currently using one for every 20' of 2.5" and that's more than sufficient.

Did you ever note the time for steam to travel that 120'?

You surely may quote me! The system is actually more like 2 50 foot and one 30 foot 3". They all go through crossover traps at the ends into the 2" dry returns, which parallel them back to the boiler where the returns join together and go down into the Hoffman Differential Loop. The two vents are on an antler just above that (the joined returns go into a 2x2x1T; the leg is bushed to 1/2, close nipple, then a 1/2T with the 75 on top and the leg going slightly off horizontal 6" to an elbow and the Gorton; the other 2 on the T goes close nipple, then 2" 90 and 2" nipple down to the loop).

It takes about 5 minutes for the 30 foot main and 6 for the two longer ones.

Fred

Jamie Hall said:

Hatterasguy said:

Jamie Hall said:

As a reference, I vent a total of 120 feet of 3" quite satisfactorily with 1 Gorton #2 and 1 Hoffman 75... Yes, the pressure reaches about 3 ounces. Uh... so what?

Can I save this statement and quote it in the future?

This constant call for one Gorton 2 for every 20' of 2" is getting tiresome.

I'm currently using one for every 20' of 2.5" and that's more than sufficient.

Did you ever note the time for steam to travel that 120'?

You surely may quote me! The system is actually more like 2 50 foot and one 30 foot 3". They all go through crossover traps at the ends into the 2" dry returns, which parallel them back to the boiler where the returns join together and go down into the Hoffman Differential Loop. The two vents are on an antler just above that (the joined returns go into a 2x2x1T; the leg is bushed to 1/2, close nipple, then a 1/2T with the 75 on top and the leg going slightly off horizontal 6" to an elbow and the Gorton; the other 2 on the T goes close nipple, then 2" 90 and 2" nipple down to the loop).

It takes about 5 minutes for the 30 foot main and 6 for the two longer ones.

@JamieHall, is that a fair comparison? Are those crossoveer traps like huge vents, in and of themselves?

Dave0176

That's a Malleable Tee, I doubt youll break it. As was said, soak it, you can hit it with a hammer to shock it a bit, like I said it's malleable its not going to crack. The bushing might be cast but I doubt it.

ChrisJ

Jamie Hall said:

Hatterasguy said:

Jamie Hall said:

As a reference, I vent a total of 120 feet of 3" quite satisfactorily with 1 Gorton #2 and 1 Hoffman 75... Yes, the pressure reaches about 3 ounces. Uh... so what?

Can I save this statement and quote it in the future?

This constant call for one Gorton 2 for every 20' of 2" is getting tiresome.

I'm currently using one for every 20' of 2.5" and that's more than sufficient.

Did you ever note the time for steam to travel that 120'?

You surely may quote me! The system is actually more like 2 50 foot and one 30 foot 3". They all go through crossover traps at the ends into the 2" dry returns, which parallel them back to the boiler where the returns join together and go down into the Hoffman Differential Loop. The two vents are on an antler just above that (the joined returns go into a 2x2x1T; the leg is bushed to 1/2, close nipple, then a 1/2T with the 75 on top and the leg going slightly off horizontal 6" to an elbow and the Gorton; the other 2 on the T goes close nipple, then 2" 90 and 2" nipple down to the loop).

It takes about 5 minutes for the 30 foot main and 6 for the two longer ones.

This is my fastest time to fill my 29' 2" main including the time to get the boiler steaming. Preheat time = time from burner getting power to steam hitting the main vents.

Typical time is 200 seconds or so most of that time being to get the boiler steaming. I'm currently using five Gorton #1s on this main and have considered going to six.

rtv

Dave. how can you tell that the T is Malleable?

JUGHNE

What are the opinions of 3 pointing the pipe wrench on any pipe; Most say yes; a few say no.

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

What are the opinions of 3 pointing the pipe wrench on any pipe; Most say yes; a few say no.

I heard a few people say this is a must and yet I've never been able to get it to work reliably?

rtv

what is "3 pointing"?!