Why hot water and not steam?

ChrisJ

j a said:

Thank you.....have a 33 on me

Huh?

Gordy

You say Econo box I say lawn mower

Gordy

What's it do in the 1/4 mile?

5 toes in the carb, and a pocket full of nuts for the squirrel .

j a_2

ChrisJ said:

j a said:

Thank you.....have a 33 on me

Huh?

That was for bob c.... he will know...huh huh.

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

What's it do in the 1/4 mile?



5 toes in the carb, and a pocket full of nuts for the squirrel .

Stock? about 15 and gets 40MPG.

Modified, they've gotten it down into the high 13s.

Many 4 cyl cars now can do 13's totally stock and 12's modifed, and many 8s are into the 10s totally stock.

Funny thing.......you call my car a lawn mower and yet your muscle car engine has more in common with a lawn mower engine with 2 valves per cyl, push rods, points, fixed valve timing and on and on.

Btw, I am a big believer in quiet exhaust on 4 cylinders, however, they sound a bit better when turbocharged. Subaru's boxer 4 also doesn't sound terrible.

So anyway, again,
Gordy, what was your opinion on that Offenhauser 4 cylinder at 9K?
Turbocharged it's been known to do 1250HP from 2.6 liters. Are you calling an Offy a lawn mower?

Jamie Hall

I always love to read folks comments on cars... and I freely admit that I wish I still had my '66 Buick Skylark GS Stage II convertible! Which I sold because my son got his driver's license, and that car was a major handful to drive. Terrific in a straight line (the best I ever did was a 10.4/107 mph quarter on stock tires). Horrendous handling and worse brakes, and a beast in the rain (that Detroit Locker rear axle did you no favours in slippery conditions). Much as I loved it -- the modern cars are much safer (and take much less skill to drive to the limit of what most drivers can tolerate!).

However, to my mind the big difference between then and now isn't the cars, it's the traffic. There was a time when one could go for a spin and actually enjoy the experience. Nowadays? At least where I live a drive somewhere is a real test of one's ability to stay calm and carry on, despite the nonsense around one.

Gordy

Ahh the Buick GS my cousins friend had one in jet black. With the chrome what a contrast. Wait chrome???? Believe it was a 72.

Son in law who's father owns 2 Rv dealerships got one in trade on a motor home. Totally restored. They sold it to a fellow in Australia for 35000 he paid 10000 to have someone drive it to Washington, and shipped to him. He already had a buyer for 60k. Muscle cars are a hot tamale down under.

Gordy

Not muscle but the early 70's olds toranados with a 455, and front wheel drive were some real power houses. Always fun laying rubber with a front wheel drive until you decide to stop.

Cougars with sequential turn signals in the rear. Monte Carlos. So many cool cars. It all went south in the late 70's when body styles got chopped, and boxed.

jumper

Smart guys specified the low horsepower option in the sixties.Started better and ran better.

Jamie Hall

jumper said:

Smart guys specified the low horsepower option in the sixties.Started better and ran better.

I wasn't very smart in those days -- but I never had any trouble at all starting that lovely 401 CI nailhead! Although it did have a bit of a radical cam, and the idle was a little lumpy...

The car has, incidentally, been restored (not by me!) and last I heard of it was on the southern California show circuit.

Gordy

Love the lumpy sound of a radical cam!

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

Love the lumpy sound of a radical cam!

You love the sound of an engine blowing it's exhaust back into the intake and throwing the mixture off in every cylinder causing it to run terrible?

Like that 1920s Miller I posted previously?
https://youtu.be/Zbvq8fT7oyU




I prefer variable valve timing my self. No need for overlap at low RPMs. Variable valve timing, you can have your cake and eat it too.

Gordy

It gives it some clear presence, and dominance. Especially when you crack the throttle. Never said it was efficient. That wasn't a particular concern back in the day. One used the technology easily had.

ChrisJ

How about a 1936 Buick straight 8 highly modified.

https://youtu.be/tm-A06AGEew


I'll admit it, that sounds damn good especially around 1:45 in.
But, it's also damn wrong, technically. That sound is created by an engine running horribly due to too much overlap at low speeds.

Gordy

What you like, and what you can do with a budget are two different things.

ChrisJ

Here's another one of my favorites, but apparently some don't classify this as a "muscle car" because it has 4 doors. You know, the correct amount of doors for a car with a back seat......

https://youtu.be/10i1y2ZFFT4

ChrisJ

@Gordy it doesn't matter how many cylinders you have, what fancy names "like HEMI!!!" you have, technology always wins.

Here's a loud LS1 V8 being beaten bad by a turbocharged 6.
I mean.......embarrassingly bad.

https://youtu.be/OBlV19ARK7c

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

How about a 1936 Buick straight 8 highly modified.

https://youtu.be/tm-A06AGEew


I'll admit it, that sounds damn good especially around 1:45 in.
But, it's also damn wrong, technically. That sound is created by an engine running horribly due to too much overlap at low speeds.

Now your talkin. Nothing like the smell of half burned high octane fuel. Cam2 baby.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

@Gordy it doesn't matter how many cylinders you have, what fancy names "like HEMI!!!" you have, technology always wins.

Here's a loud LS1 V8 being beaten bad by a turbocharged 6.
I mean.......embarrassingly bad.

https://youtu.be/OBlV19ARK7c

Kinda like a steam boiler verses a hot water mod/con huh.......

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

@Gordy it doesn't matter how many cylinders you have, what fancy names "like HEMI!!!" you have, technology always wins.

Here's a loud LS1 V8 being beaten bad by a turbocharged 6.
I mean.......embarrassingly bad.

https://youtu.be/OBlV19ARK7c

ChrisJ said:

@Gordy it doesn't matter how many cylinders you have, what fancy names "like HEMI!!!" you have, technology always wins.

Here's a loud LS1 V8 being beaten bad by a turbocharged 6.
I mean.......embarrassingly bad.

https://youtu.be/OBlV19ARK7c

Have to also see the mod specs of both cars. Apparently same drag class. just because it's an LS1 doesn't make it a top contender.

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

ChrisJ said:

@Gordy it doesn't matter how many cylinders you have, what fancy names "like HEMI!!!" you have, technology always wins.

Here's a loud LS1 V8 being beaten bad by a turbocharged 6.
I mean.......embarrassingly bad.

https://youtu.be/OBlV19ARK7c

Kinda like a steam boiler verses a hot water mod/con huh.......

Yes and no.
The thing you, and others keep leaving out of that argument is my vision of a modern steam boiler isn't what's in my basement. It also wouldn't run at or above atmospheric pressure.

I'm talking about what's possible, not what we currently have.

Picture a heat pump, minus the compressor and using radiators throughout a house rather than one condenser with a blower.

Gordy

Annnd we are talking about what is in production not visions .

Visions are great don't get me wrong. It's that conversion from vision that makes a vision happen. That conversion usually revolves around economics, and necessity.

Jamie Hall

@ChrisJ -- I'll happily admit that a big displacement, unblown, carburetted V8 (for reference, 401 cubic inch, 850 cfm Carter mechanical secondary, hand choke four barrel, dual tuned exhaust) , driving through a four speed to a 3.90 Detroit rear axle isn't high tech. It wasn't, 50 years ago, either. However... I could tune it in my backyard with three simple instruments (tach., timing light, dwell meter). It was simple, and parts were cheap. If you didn't mistreat it, it would run forever (mine was sold at 160,000 miles and 20 years old for three times what I paid for it new). And it didn't sound like a demented sewing machine on speed -- either at idle (and oh, @Gordy -- you are so right about the sound of the idle with a radical cam) or wide open.

Not everything is about high tech -- sometimes it is aesthetics.

ChrisJ

Jamie Hall said:

@ChrisJ -- I'll happily admit that a big displacement, unblown, carburetted V8 (for reference, 401 cubic inch, 850 cfm Carter mechanical secondary, hand choke four barrel, dual tuned exhaust) , driving through a four speed to a 3.90 Detroit rear axle isn't high tech. It wasn't, 50 years ago, either. However... I could tune it in my backyard with three simple instruments (tach., timing light, dwell meter). It was simple, and parts were cheap. If you didn't mistreat it, it would run forever (mine was sold at 160,000 miles and 20 years old for three times what I paid for it new). And it didn't sound like a demented sewing machine on speed -- either at idle (and oh, @Gordy -- you are so right about the sound of the idle with a radical cam) or wide open.

Not everything is about high tech -- sometimes it is aesthetics.

When it comes to automotive carbs, I'm very biased towards GM's Quadrajet.

750CFM and can be used on engines needing only 400 without any problems.

I also loved playing with them, tuning them, swapping metering rods etc.

My dad always loved Holley's double pumper.

But once again, look at what a Quadrajet is. Can a carb become anymore sophisticated and complicated? It fits my liking.

Gordy

I like the big iron too! The ww2 aircraft engines. Merlins, Alison's, Pratt and whitneys, and others. A whole other sound of power. Oh my.

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

I like the big iron too! The ww2 aircraft engines. Merlins, Alison's, Pratt and whitneys, and others. A whole other sound of power. Oh my.

I have a soft spot for radial plane engines.............

Gordy

Then there is the J58 jet engine for the SR 71. Developed in 1958 initially, then a complete make over to suit the needs of Mach 3.2 in the blackbird. Think about the jump in technology in roughly a 15 year span going from piston prop to jets. That engine was over 80% efficienct at Mach 3. The inlet spikes, and how they operate were genius to get that engine to perform. A plane that holds records yet today. Kelly Johnson was an icon in aviation.

Paul48

The muscle cars were born because the manufacturers saw what guys were doing to cars. Everything done, "Tuning" today's cars is based on knowledge passed down from the bootleggers, hot rod and backyard builders.

hot_rod

Here is an interesting read about an Allison in a boat and a tuner's story about dialing them in. 5-1/2" bore 6" stroke!

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/cream-puff-saga-craziest-1960s-marathon-boat-history/

Gordy

This is when you have a vision lol.....

https://youtu.be/SIj2GVfua84

ratio

Ah, I missed the switch to aircraft. Anyone watch this? IIRC they've got an SR71 sitting at Wright Pat AFB; it's about time I made another trek there with the kids. They need to know about what they show there.

FranklinD

Heh - I have a 1976 Ford Torino Elite with a brand new 400M...it's been in storage for several years now. Kids came along (surprise, it's twins!), and a mortgage, and so on, so it went on the back burner. I love that car. It's a big, long, 2-door with what seems like an 8-foot long hood. Black on black, dark red interior, in excellent shape given the salt used around here.

I'm actually sitting on the back deck watching the crew prepare to pour the footings and slab for my new garage as I type this...oh how excited I am! My old garage was falling down, slab all cracked up, 22x20 with a 7 foot ceiling, built in the early 70's out of leftover lumber from another project (or so my neighbor says). The new one is 24x32 (biggest footprint I can fit), with a 12 ft finished ceiling height. My new 2-post lift was delivered to my work last week. I'm ready! Ha. Once finished, the Torino will finally be coming home.

On that note, I do love the new stuff too. I worked for a Ford dealer for 8 years before I made the switch to the City (working on PD vehicles) and now I moved over to run my own show as the FD Chief Mechanic. I miss the stuff at Ford, always being on the cutting edge of the new tech, playing with and driving the vehicles fresh off the truck (gotta inspect em!)...

The variable valve and cam timing stuff, and also variable valve lift & overlap, direct injection and the new turbo setups, I think it's fantastic stuff. I regularly work on a 1981 Wagoneer with a 360 for a local dentist. It's all original, all stock, no rust. It is SUCH a pain in the butt to tune properly. I have an old SUN Analyzer I use for the older stuff but it doesn't really make it any easier. I'll take the newer fuel injected stuff any day. He's toying with the idea of getting a manifold injection setup for it... new fuel pump, intake, throttle body, distributor, air & coolant temp & manifold vac sensors, plug it all in and she's ready to roll. O2 sensors are optional (but are obviously a very good idea). No emissions/smog testing around here so you can do pretty much whatever you want, engine-wise.

I believe a few of the Viessman boilers come with what is essentially an Oxygen sensor in the exhaust stream for constant fine-tuning...I personally think that's a fantastic idea as long as the fuel/air mixing device has the ability to adjust the ratio as needed. With the technology out there, a mod-con that can modulate from 5-100% with a relatively perfect air/fuel ratio shouldn't be too hard to achieve. Someday...

jumper

Big negative of steam for individual house is that somebody is supposed to look at boiler regularly. OTH there's homes which have keep steaming without attention for decades.

Modern boiler setup could monitor itself and phone people for attention.

ChrisJ

jumper said:

Big negative of steam for individual house is that somebody is supposed to look at boiler regularly. OTH there's homes which have keep steaming without attention for decades.

Modern boiler setup could monitor itself and phone people for attention.

Except, with my idea, you wouldn't loose water because the entire system is hermetically sealed.

But as you said, even with a vented system with modern controls all of that could easily be handled.

Jamie Hall

Those were the days...

ChrisJ

Jamie Hall said:

Those were the days...

Of poor reliability, poor gas mileage, high smog in cities, terrible handling, no air conditioning (in most vehicles) and poor traction.

Yep, those were the days.


On a serious note, was that your first car Jamie?

Jamie Hall

@ChrisJ -- no. My first car was a Rambler. Which ate tires alive (can't have been my driving, can it?) and generators. The second one was a very nice '61 Buick Special station wagon -- with the aluminium V8.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

Jamie Hall said:

Those were the days...

Of poor reliability, poor gas mileage, high smog in cities, terrible handling, no air conditioning (in most vehicles) and poor traction.

Yep, those were the days.


On a serious note, was that your first car Jamie?

The revolution of the radial tire helped curb some of those handling issues. Bet you never rode on a set of bias plys have you Chris? That's an experience. Before radials no one knew any different.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

jumper said:

Big negative of steam for individual house is that somebody is supposed to look at boiler regularly. OTH there's homes which have keep steaming without attention for decades.

Modern boiler setup could monitor itself and phone people for attention.

Except, with my idea, you wouldn't loose water because the entire system is hermetically sealed.

But as you said, even with a vented system with modern controls all of that could easily be handled.

Your idea means notta until we see it work. Otherwise it's just an idea. You have a house, and a steam system get to work on it, and report back. Heating season is just around the corner. You need something else to keep you busy instead of wasting money on instrumentation. Trying to make a set for Star Trek enterprise bridge

Jamie Hall

For the sake of laughs and distraction -- the first car I drove (learned to drive on) was a Ford Model A pickup truck... if you think the handling and brakes of cars in the '50s and 60s were bad...