Upgrade to 007ECM?

Brent H. · September 14

Greetings,

I need to replace an IFC in one of my 15 year old 007s and was wondering if it’s worth replacing the whole circulator with the ECM version. The pump circulates water through the whole first floor and is probably the most used of any of my 007s.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Brent

psb75 · September 14

It would pay for itself in energy savings.

pecmsg · September 14

will it?

Over how many years or decades?

Jamie Hall · September 14

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1903791#Comment_1903791

really? Show us the numbers.

hot_rod · September 14

is it a single zone? Or are there zone valves involved?

Where are you located, many utilities have rebates still

hot_rod · September 14

if you save even 25 bucks a year o electricity

And you get the 75- 100 bucks rebate

Numbers look good to me

Jamie Hall · September 14

But the question is… how much less electricity does it use? I hate to be fussy, and I recognise that there are applications where it is essential to save every tenth of a watt (space flight, for instance), but… even if the existing pump isn't working, you have to do the number.

pecmsg · September 14

EEV's Electronic Expansion Valves in refrigeration also save Electricity dollars. In a supermarket there worth it. In a mom-and-pop shop, maybe one or 2 are not worth the extra expense and reliability issues.

hot_rod · September 14

a few things to consider, the motor itself, the ECM will be more efficient

But also most single speed circs are over-pumping with a wire to water efficiency below 20%
being able to adjust the speed to the load is also an improvement

Pump people tell you 50-80%

An 80 W circ moving only a few gallons through a single loop may be 10%!

All these questions can be answered with some number crunching

Brent H. · September 14

My heating system is zoned with circulators so this one serves just the first floor. I’m sure it’s over pumped as the loop is all 3/4” copper and fintube baseboard on the first floor.

Doubtful any rebates are available as we have municipal electric so rates are reasonable but not much for rebates.

hot_rod · September 14

So a 007, number 5 on the graph, at 3-4 gpm is running way to the left of curve, maybe 10- 12% efficiency

Mid curve is where pumps like to run, 8-12 gpm is a comfort range for an 007.

I’d guess an ECM may run 17- 20 watts to move 4-5 gpm

Here is where you find rebate $$

Unless 100 bucks is peanut s to you😏

www.dsireausa.org

Brent H. · September 14

@hot_rod Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I’m not eligible for that rebate in my town. Most of those in MA are offered through a program called MassSave that I don’t have access to. Even found my town listed on a distributor website in a list of towns not eligible.

hot_rod · 12:27AM

Well the price difference on SupplyHouse.com is between the007 and 007E is $71. I think you will recover that quickly, even without rebates.

i thought EnergyStar was a Fed program?

https://www.energystar.gov/rebate-finder

Brent H. · 12:44AM

@hot_rod

It doesn’t show a single rebate for my zip code when I enter it into the energystar site.

I could just replace the IFC also but was trying to figure out if it was just worth changing the whole circulator if I have to pull it apart anyways.

EBEBRATT-Ed · 1:27AM

same thing with the ECM blower motors on a furnace. it all looks good on paper until you have to pay for a new motor and the labor to replace them. they even sell kits to convert a furnace to a PsC motor.

Kaos · 1:43AM

I have cheap electricity and even here the ROI on an ECM pump is about 2 years. If you have the typical wall of pumps, upgrading the often used zones is well worth it.

The one problem with PSC pumps is even when you turn them down, the use almost the same power. This adds up when you have 4-6 pumps running. An ECM on the other hand, on low speed might only use 10W.

I replaced my original PSC pump with an ECM because of noise. I could hear the motor through the piping in the rads at night when the house was quiet. The ECM pump is silent.

Lot of the house heat has changed in more than a decade since but that original Alpha is still chugging along. That was even without a mag filter on a gravity conversion with cast rads.

hot_rod · 1:56AM

The reasons for changing iclude the efficienct bump and also I suspect the current cirs is way over-pumping if this is just a single loop 0f 3/4 fin tube. Generally a loop is 70' or so. 3/4 fin tube designs around 1 gpm.Or up to 4 if you need extra out put.

So call it 2 gpm and see where if falls on the 007 curve

I think the 007E is still way to much pump for a single loop fin tube.

I'm not up to speed on all the Taco, but a 0015 on speed 1 may be a better fit for a low flow circuit?

I like the B&G Vario where you can lock it at 9 different speeds. Speed 1 or two may do it 10- 15W perhaps.

I've been using ECM of all different brands since Wilo first introduced ECM circs. I have yet to have one fail.

Other that one I dropped🤨

Upgrade to 007ECM?

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