Gas shutoff valve - is this open or closed?
Living in a condo with shared basement access. We came back from vacation and found our gas oven/stovetop nonfunctional. Igniters for all burners and oven work fine, but no gas delivery and no gas smell. Water heater on same gas line, with a different shutoff, works fine.
Either my stove has broken such that no gas is being delivered to any burner (certainly possible there is a failed “range valve and regulator”) or someone shutoff the gas line to my stove. I can’t imagine that being the case, but maybe someone was doing electrical work (junction panels right below) and shutoff then didn’t turn back on?
Before we replace the stove, can someone check whether the pic showing the gas line (with what I assume to be a shutoff) is open or closed?
Comments
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It looks like there's a line on the head of the gas valve that's perpendicular to the pipe. Generally, that line should show the state of the valve, in line with the pipe = open, across (like what I see now) = closed.
Has anyone been performing work in the building? Is there a Super you can ask?
I'm loath to open a gas valve that some else closed, in case they left it in an unsafe condition, but if it were me I might just give it a quarter turn & see what happens. Maybe follow the line & make sure it isn't cut off or apart somewhere.
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It looks off to me. The raised ridge/line on the square portion is perpendicular to the pipe. For on the line would be parallel to the piping.
Are you sure that is for your stove? I would not turn it until being certain.
I would ask neighbors who have access to the basement if they know anything.
Maybe the owners/management had someone doing some work down there.
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It looks like a big line to serve just a range. does it serve anything else? i would trace it and make sure it is intact before opening the valve or possibly get the utility to do it.
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I see a reducer down stream of the valve.
Personally
The OP is clueless. Call the landlord or gas company
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valve looks like relatively new install and is definitely off. May have been recently added to allow the system to be isolated from basement.
Call the property manager.
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It is in the off position.
Looks like a newish install.
Maybe someone worked on the gas system while you were gone and they couldn't relight the stove because no one was home so they left it shut off. Better find someone to ask before turning it on.
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Pipe is relatively new, yes, compared to the condo building which is a 200 year old brick school conversion. But that pipe has been there going to our stove (and only our stove) for at least the four years we have owned the condo. Do you seriously think I wouldn’t have asked a superintendent or landlord if there was such a thing (there isn’t in our five unit historic district conversion).
Not clueless either, just cautious with gas. If it was a water valve I wouldn’t have even asked the question, but when I saw a valve that looked so obviously “off” I figured it was worth checking for confirmation (thanks) before sending out a pissed off text to my neighbors asking who let some clueless workman into our basement and why.
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Gas can blow stuff up or cause a fire. We have no idea when someone posts what their skill level or knowledge is so no one meant any disrespect.
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For the clueless who have never lived in a condo: there is NO SUCH THING as a “landlord”. Many such as mine do not have a “property manager” either. If something is broken in my unit, then it is INDEED my job to figure it out (same as a homeowner, yes?)
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chill, you post questions about gas pipes, and leave for a couple days you should expect to have a lot of comments.
Not sure why you’re so upset about our suggesting you talk to a property manager, very common approach to maintenance issues on condo units. Talk to your condo board, I’m sure you have one. if you’re still concerned to call a plumber.
Nobody here is gonna tell you to turn on a gas line that we can’t personally inspect.
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Whoah, I’m upset? I asked a question, got some answers and I thanked those who responded directly. My question wasn’t “should I turn this on”.
Ed’s and your comments were most appreciated and exactly what I was looking for; on the other hand being called clueless was just completely unnecessary and offensive. That kind of name calling isn’t heating “help”, it’s heating one-upmanship and it should be beneath this forum.
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You're dealing with GAS! Know your limitations!
Your condo has help available when it comes to common gas, water and sewer issues.
What happens "When" Something goes wrong, do you want to be responsible I doubt it.
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I know we might be coming off strong, we just want you to be careful because gas is no joke. We don't want you or anyone else to become the next headline about a building blowing up from a gas leak.
In most multifamily buildings, condo's included, there is a property manager, super, or other such person that should be the first point of contact before you as a resident would do anything, that's why we suggested it. If yours does not as you stated, the duty appears to fall to you to be the one to call a professional who can properly test and confirm what the situation is. Then once you know that, you can proceed with whatever the necessary next steps are.
It's good to broaden your horizons and learn new things, but be careful. With gas, you are assuming a tremendous amount of liability and if you something goes wrong you have the potential to jeopardize the life and property of everyone in your building.
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It's good to hammer home safety concerns relative to gas lines. However, there was no need for @pecmsg to call the OP clueless, especially since he came here for help. We can communicate the importance of safety concerns and even strongly recommend using outside expertise without being disrespectful. Let's move on.
-Andrew (moderator)
Forum Moderator
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Thank you Andrew. For those interested, an upstairs neighbor responded that, yes, the gas company had come to change his meter last week and they were in the basement. Our gas lines are independent after going to the meter; the gas company changed my meter while I watched months ago without affecting any other unit. So the same should have happened when they changed his meter, but obviously they (the gas company) screwed up.
The gas company came out and turned on the valve that I had identified, but had no interest in looking any further or explaining why this valve would have been closed or left closed in the first place. Nor did he or customer service explain why they didn’t inform us in text, email or mail that it had been done. “It’s working now” was his reply, clearly more interested in going to his next call.
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Gas and electrical utility have same motto, when in doubt shut it off.
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Yeah. They shut it off by "accident".
At least it has been resolved and you know what happened
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Can you see all the piping downstream of that valve? If so at least you could "bubble test" all the connections for piece of mind.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Thank you for coming back with the rest of the story.
We may all sound overcautious,but most of us here have been close to some gas disasters, to include fatalities.
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I think the only one we should call clueless in public is ourself. Otherwise, pull the guy or gal aside and walk him or her through it.
So, I’ll go first. It’s 1982, I’m 3 months out of trade school and have less than 90 days experience with my first employer. All of those days were as a helper on installations, parts runner, or the guy who had to clean up the shop. I didn’t care. I’d run through a brick wall if they asked me to.
We had to be at shop at 7:30, every morning. I was always there at 7:10. My boss would get there at 7:15, see me sitting in my personal truck and always shake his head when he saw me. I didn’t know much yet so I did the best I could with what I had. I showed up early and made sure I was the hardest working guy there.
This particular day, our lead installer calls in sick like he did at least once a week. My boss, tells me I have go up to Wisconsin and run some gas pipe. He helps load up my truck with a Ridgid vise tripod, a pipe stand, oiler, bucket and a Ridgid 65RC threader; something I’ve never even seen before, let alone use. Before I can even get two words out, he says, “you’ll figure it out”.He draws a rudimentary sketch of where the gas pipe will run around this building and where the drops will be. No pipe sizes or any other detail. He sends me over to Mid-Way Supply in Palatine, IL where my material is in Will Call. I get there where an old-timer, Ed Hanson, the store manager is waiting for me. Actually, he was surprised to see me. He had taken me under his wing and he was familiar with the job I was about to do.
“Steve, are you just picking up and delivering or is that knucklehead sending you up there to do this alone?”.
Steve Minnich3 -
”Just me, Ed”. Ed not only got us this job but also designed it. He told me this is a two man job and the first guy has to have a lot of experience. I see my order and it’s 20 - 10’ lengths of 2” black iron pipe, 2” 90’s, 2” couplings, 2” x 1” reducing tees, and a bunch of 1” pipe and fittings. I load my work van and I have a single 24’ extension ladder and one 10’ step ladder on top. Ed tells me I’m hanging these 10’ lengths of 2” black iron pipe from a 16’ foot ceiling.
I’m 21 years old, no experience, but I was strong and determined. I weighed a buck fifty at the time, but could bench press 265 free weight. I drive an hour and a half up to Wisconsin and Ed pages me. I forgot something important and had to drive all the way back to Palatine and then head north again. It’s almost noon and I haven’t even fully unloaded my truck yet.
I’m not sure I ever did anything harder in my career than that job. I didn’t know to properly attack it. Screwing a 10’ length of schedule 40, 2” pipe into a 2” fitting, 16’ in the air, solo, is next to impossible without the proper training. I did it anyway. I hated my first boss for reasons such as this and I did it just to spite him and my willfull stubbornness.
A couple days later, all the pipe along the ceiling is hung properly and straight, the drops are where they’re supposed to be with gas shut-off and capped. The meter is around the back of the building so I moving slow to and from, to turn the gas back on and leak check. I’m not even halfway back and the manager of the gas station comes out yelling at me that the entire station is filled with gas. ChannelLocks in hand, I run back to the meter and shut it off.
I run back in and look at all the piping and I see that one of the drops didn’t have a cap and I left the valve wide open. Once fixed, it was leak free, but it could have been a catastrophic disaster and it would be entirely my fault.
I was CLUELESS. I had no business doing that project with no experience. I had never used a 65RC before. I had never threaded 2” pipe by hand. I didn’t know how to balance myself while screwing in a 10’ length of 2” pipe solo, mid-air. I was so far in over my head those couple days that I carried a chip on my shoulder against my boss until I got enough experience to move on to a better company.
I learned how to say no to him without any further explanation.
I learned that this guy didn’t care about quality at all.
I learned that I would never allow myself to be in a position of where I was clueless.
If I didn’t know how, I would say I don’t know how, and somebody better teach me the right way to do it or I’ll take a hard pass. Either that, or give me the time to teach myself before I potentially embarrass myself on the job-site, or worse, put somebody in harm’s way.Steve Minnich4 -
I can remember going to work on an antique oil burner my first summer working. It was unlike anything I had ever seen before. Never saw one of these in trade school was all I could think. I couldn't figure out how to get the nozzle assembly out of it.
Yeah the 65RC would be kind of tough without anyone showing you.
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Each appliance must have an approved gas shutoff (listed to ANSI Z21.15) in the same room within 6 feet and 'accessible'. This is Not in the same room. I would pay a pipe fitter/ plumber to install a fully ported ball valve in place of this junk then put another valve in the kitchen if there isn't one already there. The valve shown requires a separate wrench to operate, which is an inconvenience. This is Not an emergency shutoff- that's at the gas meter. This ground key design is Not fully ported. Quite the contrary, it is very restrictive. Get a fully ported valve so you can enjoy the full flow of the pipe diameter at pressure. When the gas utility shuts off your gas, they take on the responsibility to bleed any air out and fire each appliance. They also have a duty to survey the property for gas leaks and bubble test any disturbed fittings.
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I don't agree.
Some years ago, MA required ranges and dryers to be 'Hard piped" no flex connectors.
They have since gone back to allowing flex connectors.
When the ranges and dryers were hard piped putting a valve behind a range or dryer that had cabinets or walls on both sides did not work. Even making the hard pipe connection was difficult and because of that the union and shutoff ended up in the basement.
If a range is between cabinets and you can't pull the range out far enough with the flex connector how do you access the valve especially in an emergency/
You can run to the basement faster than trying to jump in behind the range to get at the valve. Yes in some cases you may be able to pull the stove drawer out to get access to the valve but a basement shutoff IMHO is more accessible than messing with that
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you could put it in the cabinet next to the range, but unlike new home builders cost isn't my only concern.
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I'm quoting the NFGC and IFGC. Both say a shutoff in the same room within 6 feet and 'accessible'. That means pulling an appliance out for service makes it 'accessible'. The code allows for 3 foot flex connectors on other appliances but allow 6' connectors on ranges and ovens to provide sufficient slack to pull them. Hard piping an appliance should be allowed ONLY when a ground union is 'readily accessible' meaning being able to put your hands directly on it, leak test, and turn wrenches. A union in the basement or crawlspace would mean you would have to lift the entire appliance straight up for the nipple to clear the hole in the floor and holes in the floor are supposed to be fireblocked. No way to hard pipe where slab on grade or under floor inaccessible.
Appliance shutoffs are NOT emergency shutoffs. That's at the meter or, with LPG, at the MP regulator 'point of delivery'.
Taxachoosetts plumbing code has always been 'out there'. LOL.
FYI, fireplaces and outdoor luminaires are exempt from shutoff within 6ft same room IF: s/o 'readily accessible', labelled, and shuts off only that appliance.
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