Strange flap inside condensate side of 2 pipe radiator

ethicalpaul · July 11

My friend has a big old house in Hamtramck Michigan with a big 2 pipe system

He found this inside the union on the condensate side of a radiator. It swings freely. There is a trap under it in the basement.

Anyone know what it is? Some check valve to hold vacuum or something??

EBEBRATT-Ed · July 11

@ethicalpaul

I don't know but looking at the trap in the basement it looks like with the extra elbows like it may have been added after the fact.

What are the other radiators telling you?

Maybe the little flapper was the trap and the thermostatic traps were added after, Any Name on anything? Any cross over traps or boiler return trap etc?

mattmia2 · July 11

this smells a whole lot like a vapor system that someone put a radiator trap on because they didn't understand it. what do the radiator valves look like? any devices near the boiler?

Steamhead · July 12

This is a Kriebel system. The flap is called a "baffler" and serves to keep steam from backing into the rad if the rad goes into vacuum, as might happen if someone closes the radiator shutoff valve when the steam is up.

The shutoff valves probably have the label "The Vapor Vacuum Heating Company" around the handle, and a logo "VVH" on the side that looks something like the Van Halen logo.

There should be a large air vent on the dry return near the boiler. The original looks like a beam-balance on a scale, and it was mounted in the floor joists above the boiler.

See chapter 15 of @DanHolohan 's book "The Lost Art of Steam Heating" available in the Store of this site. The latest version is called "Revisited".

And yes, it looks like the trap was added later.

mattmia2 · July 12

@Steamhead, i don't think you need to tell @ethicalpaul what TLAOSH is…

ethicalpaul · July 12

thanks all and @Steamhead for the ID

I’m not near the system but I’ll ask him for those verifying identifiers.

It would not surprise me at all if stuff had been incorrectly added over the decades

Steamhead · July 12

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1899921#Comment_1899921

That, as always, was for others reading this.

Jamie Hall · July 12

Just to add a bit… that trap in the basement may have been added after some nit-wit raised the pressure and things stopped working properly. That system wants the pressure down around 4 ounces…

EBEBRATT-Ed · July 12

Just wondering if the other radiators also have the added traps.

I would assume as @Steamhead posted the original system did not have radiator traps and relied on the flapper.

ethicalpaul · July 12

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1899929#Comment_1899929

as do all residential systems!

mattmia2 · July 12

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1899936#Comment_1899936

but most 1 pipe and non-vapor 2 pipe system can tolerate 2-3 psig. vapor systems rely on the pressure differential between the supply and return being under .5 psi or so and the size if the opening in the radiator valve to regulate the steam admitted to an emitter to less than the amount of steam that radiator can condense. if the pressure is too high steam will end up blowing through the emitters in to the returns.

EdTheHeaterMan · July 13

"…the opening in the radiator valve to regulate the steam admitted to an emitter to less than the amount of steam that radiator can condense. if the pressure is too high steam will end up blowing through the emitters in to the return"

I'm surprised that @mattmia2 was not able to incorporate more words like: Emulator, Altimeter, and Ulcerates into that statement.

mattmia2 · July 13

a lot of vapor systems use convector cabinets rather than standing cast iron radiators…

Steamhead · July 13

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1899952#Comment_1899952

Give him time- shows he paid attention in his English classes.

ChrisJ · July 17

The word of the day : Indemnification.

Strange flap inside condensate side of 2 pipe radiator

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