Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
If our community has helped you, please consider making a contribution to support this website. Thanks!

Alternative Skim Port

Options
markmarlatt
markmarlatt Member Posts: 106

Technician was unable to remove the slim port plug today (without risking damage to heat exchanger). Is there another port on the boiler I could use for skimming?:

7833088812396881381.png

I was thinking maybe the top site glass port, remove the knob while skimming then replace?

IMG_6452.jpeg

Technician asked me to apply penetrating oil every other day to the skim port plug and then try again in a month to remove the plug. Thoughts?

Comments

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,890
    edited April 13

    find a better tech. it can be cut out.

    usually you cut most of the middle out with a hole saw then cut 2 slots almost to the threads to make a pie shaped wedge then you break that section out with a caping chisel. once you take that section out the rest of it will be loose and you can unscrew it.

    ethicalpaulPC7060
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,271
    edited April 13

    It appears that your HB Smith boiler does not have a dedicated Skim tapping according to the manual. The closest thing that manual shows is what appears tp be a 3/4" plug that has no access thru the boiler jacket in your photo.

    image.png

    That plug is not even labeled in the diagram on page 24. The skim tapping should be centered over the boiler’s widest top openings where the push nipples or gaskets connect the sections. This allows the water level during skimming to be positioned at the widest part of the top section connection. In the diagram you can see the location of the top opening gasket (17).

    If your boiler repair technician is not referencing that opening, then you should not have them perform the skimming. They do not understand the purpose of the skimming process. Otherwise, you may end up paying someone to skim only the end section of the boiler rather than properly skimming all six boiler sections.

    EDIT:

    Your skim tapping is behind this knock out on the boiler jacket:

    image.png

    RED ARROW indicated skim tapping location. I might even consider getting a machinist in there to drill and tap a larger hole for 1" or -1/4" pipe and a cap for future use.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,409
    edited April 13

    If it was mine……….

    I'd be tempted to close the lower valve on the gauge glass, open the drain on the gauge glass and attempt to skim it through that, slowly.

    It's certainly close to the top of the boiler, and it would probably get the job done. Slowly. Just a trickle…….

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,850

    Hiring a machinist? I think I'd try a can of Squick first

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,409

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,850

    These cleaning instructions are wild. They want you to blow the oil out the top via the PRV port along with water and steam until the water is clean.

    image.png image.png

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    GGross
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,850

    Well nothing against machinists but that's gonna be a steep price to pay!

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,890

    i don't know that the firing is doing anything other than mixing up what is in the boiler and splashing the detergent on the sections above the water line. sounds like they are trying to emulsify the oil and drain it with the water.

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,850

    The firing/steam generation is basically forcing steam, water, and oil out the top PRV port until the water is clean enough that this sort-of "carryover" no longer occurs, then they say you can stop (might take 3 hours they say and I believe them). It's a lot of effort just to save them machining a real skim port.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,409

    I seem to recall someone, or, maybe a book? mentioning they didn't skim boilers years ago, but rather dry fired them and burned the oil out of it.

    No idea how true it is etc, but it seemed true when I read / heard it.

    By years ago, I mean 1930s and older.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 1,369

    I use an 1/2" 20 volt impact with a 16 star impact socket. i think you'll be surprised how easy it comes out where its only a 3/4 plug. My has 3 torque settings and i try on the lowest and work my way up.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M18-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Brushless-1-2-in-High-Torque-Impact-Wrench-with-Friction-Ring-Tool-Only-2666-20/326507960#:~:text=M18%2018%2DVolt%20Lithium%2DIon%20Brushless%201/2%20in.%20High%20Torque%20Impact%20Wrench%20with%20Friction%20Ring%20(Tool%2DOnly)

  • markmarlatt
    markmarlatt Member Posts: 106

    The tech was using a 1/2" impact with a short extension (plug is a square recessed). He stated he could have ramped the impact further but was not confident that heat exchanger damage might occur and asked for direction. I asked him to stop and we'd try the penetrating oil route and for him to return with a long breaker bar for the next attempt.

    However I'm wonder if I should even bother given the highlight that the 3/4 is ill placed to serve for skimming.

    I'm going to try closing the lower sight glass valve and then open drain and see if I can get a trickle out of the top to establish.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,228

    Take the relief valve out and skim it there.

    Get the boiler hot then shut it off and start skimming

    or use the top gauge glass connection

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,813
    edited April 14

    Could you avoid machining by cutting a hole in sheet metal jacket to access the 3/4 plug Ed located? I’d use a 2” hole saw and go carefully . Once you get access it may still be a job breaking the plug loose.

  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 1,369

    Your taking the plug out so I dont know how you could damage the heat exchanger. different impacts have different torque ranges.

  • markmarlatt
    markmarlatt Member Posts: 106

    The knockout was removed and the plug made accessible however the plug would not budge with heat, impact and even crayon tricks. Going to try using the top site glass valve removal route and see how it goes.

    The 1/2 inch knockout of the left side was removed however no plug was present sadly.

    PC7060
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,271
    edited April 14

    That may skim the section with the gauge glass, but the water level at that point is not connected to the other sections at the surface—only at the bottom. There would be no skimming from the second section through to the other end.

    Take a look at any intermediate section of a boiler and you will see that the only place where the water surface of the entire boiler is connected is when the water level is at the height of the push nipples or gasketted openings. Any location above or below that point will not allow proper skimming.

    Just look at any steam boiler intermediant section and match it up to the end section and you can see that the lowest gauge glass port is well below the common area for the rest of the sections. For skimming to work, it must be at the proper water level or you may as well not even waste your time.

    image.png

    The only tappings on this boiler (not the boiler in this post) are indicated in with green arrows. All the other tappings on the end section (including the bottom gauge glass tapping) will only skim the end section.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,890

    i suppose you could rig something up with a shop vac and a tub that sat just at the water level to dump the surface between the tappings.

    or a tube shove up just to the level where the sections connect and sealed.

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 4,068
    image.png

    Since the upper site glass port seems the highest tapping on the side (either side) of the boiler I would try the @ChrisJ method. It may be slower than normal skimming, but it may get the job done. The plug the plumber was attacking could have been drilled out enough to slice it as @mattmia2 suggests.

    There was post not too long ago where the heat exchanger cracked just trying to remove the drain valve. Old boilers you really don't know how dilapidated they are. So brute force until something breaks may not be the best plan.

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,409

    I was going by the drawing you posted earlier that looked like the top of the gauge glass was tapped right under the relief valve. It seemed to be where it would skim all of the sections unless that drawing is incorrect.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • AdmiralYoda
    AdmiralYoda Member Posts: 797

    Homeowner here that would do his own work. I'd be afraid to remove the skim port and break something and I'd be a bit nervous about cutting out a wedge and screwing something up.

    I'd remove the Tee where the pigtail is on the top of the site glass and install a cross. Install a nipple and a ball valve and route a short section of pipe to drain into a bucket or put a garden hose adapter on it to drain it from there.

    My second option would be to use the PRV port. take the PRV off and install a Tee. Route some piping from there with a ball valve to a convenient drain location.

    Neither would be ideal but would be better than nothing and I'd feel confident enough to do it on my own.

  • markmarlatt
    markmarlatt Member Posts: 106

    It seems HB Smith didn't feel that skimming was necessary and their radical cleaning instructions that involve removal of the pressure relief valve are 'the way'. This boiler was made in 1998 and is now working better than it ever has since I bought the house in 2015.

    I do wish to find a way to skim the boiler and reduce the surging I'm getting in the glass, but not via brute force of removing the 3/4" plug which seems ill placed to properly skim anyway. In looking at all the replies here as well as the boiler diagrams, the top port of the site glass seems to be the best place tapping for skimming no?

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,850

    For a boiler that old, I think it is unlikely that oil is still floating on the surface requiring skimming.

    Is your gauge glass indicated water level dropping dramatically at any time during a call for heat? You mention "surging I'm getting in the glass". Can you precisely describe or make a video of what you're seeing?

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • markmarlatt
    markmarlatt Member Posts: 106

    Close lower knob, leave upper knob open then open drain and then slowly add water until a trickle comes out the drain. Do I have that correct?

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,409

    Yep.

    I've done that on my WM boiler a few times to wash the glass out. I'd imagine it would work for skimming as well, just, slow. That's assuming the top of the glass is piped in as they show it on that diagram.

    I'd drain 4 gallons and see what it looks like on the top of the bucket at the end. Oily / nasty is a good sign.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,271

    Your plan would be correct. When I read it the first time I thought you were skimming from the bottom gauge glass port. Now I understand that closing the bottom port off would be using the top gauge glass port. That will work, but ever so slowly. A 1/2" pipe opening will take 6 times longer to do what a 1-1/4" opening will do. …with much less room for level fluctuation.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    ChrisJmarkmarlatt