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Lifting up a Radiator

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NY2024
NY2024 Member Posts: 22

Hi! There are two radiators on our second floor that feed off the same riser. My guess is that the runouts to these two radiators have sagged over the years. Every time the heat comes up, there's a lot of banging in the runouts to the two radiators until the steam reaches the supply valve for each radiator. Once the steam arrives at the supply valves, the banging stops completely.

Once the heating season is over, I would like to hire a plumber to raise these two radiators a little bit (both ends of each radiator) to hopefully give some pitch to the runouts and solve the water hammer that happens each time the heat comes up.

One of the radiators is a 32 EDR six-tube radiator with 8 sections and the other radiator is a much larger 55.5 EDR three-column radiator with 15 sections.

How does it actually work to raise up a radiator? How difficult is it to do this? Is there any potential downside to trying this? Can it break or crack the radiator? I would rather deal with the water hammer than create new, additional problems. How many inches would be good to start with to try this out?

Thank you very much for your help!

Comments

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,109
    edited March 12

    You need two strong men and a boy!

    Seriously, lifting a radiator with a lever and fulcrum, a little at a time, is not hard to do at all. Have some ¼-inch shims ready. Lift one end ¼ inch, then the other end ¼ inch, then go back to the original end ¼ inch, and then back to the other end ¼ inch. Continue this process until you get the radiator about ¾ inch above the floor, and then try the system out.

    The cast-iron parts and fittings should hold up just fine. I have done this several times with good success.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    NY2024ethicalpaulBobC
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,695

    A block of wood and a 2x4 make a great lifter. As long as you don't get too medieval on it I think the risk of breaking anything is quite low. But not zero!

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    EdTheHeaterManNY2024
  • PhilKulkarni
    PhilKulkarni Member Posts: 114

    I used a slim car jack, operated with a 3/4” socket wrench, to lift my radiators about 1/2”—raising one end at a time—and slipped 1/2” wood shims underneath to hold them in place. Supporting the back side of the radiators was tricky because there wasn’t enough clearance to slide the shims in, especially on the valve side where the jack had to sit at an angle to fully engage the radiator.

    After lifting one of the smaller radiators, I left it perfectly level on @ethicalpaul ’s advice, and that alone reduced the gurgling so much that now I’m the only one who can hear it, and even then just barely.

    ethicalpaulNY2024
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,119

    I wouldn't go 3/4" at first. If it is one pipe steam keep the pipe end just a bit lower that the other end. First make sure it has a little pitch in the right direction.

    If it does raise each end a 1/4" at a time and try that.

    ethicalpaulNY2024
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,562

    I cut 1-1/2" X12" (or however wide the radiator is) slats out of 1/4. 1/2 and 3/4" plywood). using a 3 ft 2X and a fulcrum I kneel on the long 2X to GENTLY raise an end while slipping a shim under that ends feet. A long radiuator might need a longer 2X and a friend.

    You can stain the slats to match your floor. Then I do the other end and check the level to make sure water will flow back to the boiler.

    Bob

    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    Captain WhoNY2024
  • Captain Who
    Captain Who Member Posts: 848
    edited March 13

    @BobC

    Do you disconnect the radiator from the supply valve first?

    How bad is it to have a concentric bushing at the radiator instead of going with a larger valve with the reducer under that? Doesn't matter much or is it worthwhile?

    NY2024
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,297

    One does NOT disconnect the radiator from the supply. In fact, the whole purpose of the exercise is to raise the supply so it will have more slope back to wherever it is gong!

    A concentric bushing really isn't a problem. Yes, it will trap some water — but not enough to be a catastrophe. An eccentric bushing would be better — but this is very much a run what you brung. If there's a concentric in there, live with it.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ethicalpaul4GenPlumber
  • Captain Who
    Captain Who Member Posts: 848
    edited March 13

    Devils in the details but thanks and I was interested in @BobC method. Case in point.

    I have a pair of radiators that I have to jack up at least 3/8". One is on my 1st floor and one on the 2nd. The corner of the L shaped main in the basement needs to come up 3/8" (but I will try for 3/4") for proper pitch purposes and my plan is to jack that main up with a car jack with the radiators disconnected since it needs controlled force. It would be foolish in my case not to disconnect them first and then jack up the radiators to meet the supply valves.

    One possible alternative "might" be to disconnect the 1st floor radiator and try to jack up the main in the basement 1/4" at a time, and then the radiator upstairs still connected, and repeat the process until I get the 3/4" and then see if I can pull the valve up to the radiator on the 1st floor after I jack that one up and then reconnect.

  • Captain Who
    Captain Who Member Posts: 848
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,706

    Plastic checkers are another option; and you get a choice of colors.

    Retired and loving it.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,562

    I have a small system with a very short main. The maim is about 10-12ft long, it circled the chimney and that gives me long leadouts ro the radiators (10-12ft) so there is room for "flex". I have never felt the need to disconnect a radiator. The lever and fulcrum give a good feel for what you are doing.

    Bob

    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    Captain Whoethicalpauldabrakeman
  • Captain Who
    Captain Who Member Posts: 848
    edited 11:21AM

    Thank you for that polite response without talking down. I didn't say but my runouts are less than 2 ft. and not everyone needing to jack up a radiator is doing it because the pitch of their runouts are wrong. Some people need to change the pitch of their main without straining the runouts too much and want to maintain the pitch of their runouts. Also, some people could have soldered copper runouts which can't handle the strain as much as black iron.

  • 4GenPlumber
    4GenPlumber Member Posts: 138

    If you are trying to raise your main, can you get a clevis hanger on it? Use a beam hanger if running with the joists in the basement, or a 2×4 between joists with a hole drilled in. Then you can run a nut with a fender washer on top of the 2×4. Lock the clevis with a double nut. Run threaded rod up through second support (beam hanger or 2×4), then wrench threaded rod up 3/4". Everytime you raise it 1/4" run around and see the heights of rads. Sorry that description was a bit convoluted. Its easier with the 2×4, with the beam hanger you need to do a lot of double nut and washer so rod will spin.

    Captain Who
  • Captain Who
    Captain Who Member Posts: 848
    edited 12:48PM

    Thanks. I did a hanger already where I am using a piece of 3/8 in. x 2in. x 2 in. steel angle lag screwed to the joist directly over the elbow of the main. There is a 5/16 in. eye bolt that is adjustable for height with a pair of nuts and I got some #8 jack chain that wraps around the elbow. I also plan to put another one a couple joists over from there for additional support. Found a great supplier since you can't get this stuff in hardware stores around me anymore. https://www.riggingwarehouse.com/rw-chain/rw-weldless-general-purpose-chain/rw-single-jack-chain.html?working_load_limit__9lbs_0=60-lbs

    PS: I already had 4 of these angle irons made that were to be feet on a router table and I ended up only using two so had two left over and I can always use them with the clevis hardware and threaded rod if the jack chain doesn't turn out to be strong enough but I believe it will be because it probably has a factor of safety of x5 built into the rating.

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,297

    Where you are trying to raise and straighten a main, @Captain Who , you are very wise to disconnect the radiators first! I sort of misunderstood what you were up to, an though it was a runout problem. Sorry! Be very careful, though, when you reconnect — as I'm sure you are aware, unions are oddly unforgiving about taking up misalignments.

    Also as I'm sure you are aware, if that main is more than say four feet or so long, it needs intermediate supports to keep it straight as well as pitched correctly. You wouldn't think heavy iron pipe could bend enough to create a sag, but…

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Captain Who
    Captain Who Member Posts: 848
    edited 2:02PM

    OK all is forgiven and thank you. Misalignments are no good….goes without saying. I am all too aware of having to check the main all over for sags, not just for overall pitch. It's amazing how 100 year old 2 in. steam main is not straight and the fittings and threads were not made with perfect alignment. I have #10 jack chain (I am upgrading that) that was apparently what my dead men used and I will say that it is inadequate, as were the single wood screws driven into the joist. A water level is my go to for checking the piping along with a short magnetic level. If need be I can upgrade what I have planned to the threaded rod and clevis hardware but I like the way the #8 jack chain leaves more room for insulation (ocd yes).

  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 245

    As others said I used to use blocks of wood and fulcrum. That is until I got these Dewalt lifting jacks. On a small radiator that just needs a little shim I can get away with only 1. Otherwise I use a small section of unistrut at an angle under tye radiator and a jack on each end. Quick and easy to lift and shim. I also used them on furnaces, baseboard and water heaters to level equipment.

    Owner of Grunaire Climate Solutions. Check us out under the locate a contractor section. Located in Detroit area.

    Captain Who