Wet return line called it quits

jessestaton · January 27

Fun week. Waiting on a Vaporstat to get the boiler working more correctly,

Now I hear a hiss and find this wet return pipe has decided 105 years is enough.

Suggestions and best practices for this, please?

Leaking where it's sitting inside the wall. Photos of both sides of the wall.

ethicalpaul · January 27

any plumber should be able to cut out the bad pipe and replace it. They may find all that pipe is shot

mattmia2 · January 27

I would replace that whole run with copper. If you put something between the masonry and the copper where they touch/are secured it will last longer. I would also put tees and appropriate fittings at both ends so you can flush it with a hose.

EdTheHeaterMan · January 27

How dare that pipe!
Only 105 years of service. What a slacker!

For now, I might replace just that small section of pipe. I’d use copper, and probably a ProPress-to-MPT adapter on each side.

Be sure to add something it can slide against—maybe a thin shim of wood with a piece of plastic milk bottle—so it can handle expansion and movement in the brick opening.

The thinner copper pipe will also leave room for a friction-reducing wood/plastic spacer, so we don’t mess with the proper pitch of the return.

EBEBRATT-Ed · January 28

I doubt you can successfully Mega Press on to that old rusty pipe

jessestaton · January 28

I tapped around on the rest of it and seems solid enough to leave for now.

Guess I need to look into renting a ProPress tool.

I don't expect that single section between the first 45's is any good.

So cut the first two 45's and add adapters on both sides, new copper 45s then a straight copper between the new 45s through the wall? Does that sound like a plan?

Jamie Hall · January 28

Replace as much of it as you can. If a pipe like that goes in one place, the whole thing is going to go soon (don't ask how I know that). Copper is fine.

4GenPlumber · January 28

Since your return is accessible, change as much as you can. Once you go to cut the bad nipple, you will: 1.Find more nipples rotted. 2. Drop rust/sediment into your return and not be able to flush it. Might as well do the job once.

jessestaton · January 28

As much as I can is good advice.

I looked into copper press for this repair.
Transition fitting from black iron to copper are over $100 each.
45s are about $45 each.
Renting a tool $60-$100 a day I bet.
Around $500 for a 2 foot section. Ouch.
Add in if I can get a plumber to perform the task instead since the cold and old house have been trying my optimism lately.

Going to get my torch and PB blaster to see if I can get some fittings loose and replace with black iron and a union.

We'll see how much is still solid.

Probably consider draining the boiler first if that makes sense to avoid contamination and even removing an end of the wet return to flush it.

ethicalpaul · January 28

Well to be fair, no one said propress 😅

You don't have to drain the boiler…this is the only benefit of the Hartford Loop

Forget PBBlaster. Think sawzall and big pipe wrench

mattmia2 · January 28

black pipe and fittings aren't inexpensive either. i'd do it in sweat copper, if you plan ahead you can preassemble parts and solder those assemblies together in accessible locations.

you will probably have to cut a pipe near a fitting, cut almost to the threads on 2 places, then use a chisel to knock out the piece in between. might be a lot easier to do this at the main than in the below water line part

you will have to skim the boiler a couple times after you are done to get rid of the oils from the dope and flux or black pipe

4GenPlumber · January 29

Or, cut into the fitting without hitting nipple threads. Drive a beater screw drivers into the cut and split the cast iron. Have fun getting nips, fittings and a union between a rock and a hard place though. Good luck.

mattmia2 · January 29

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1884926#Comment_1884926

or that, but i figured the fittings would be in better shape than the pipe.

4GenPlumber · January 29

@mattmia2 you are probably right, but outside cutting is easier for someone with little inside cutting experience. I dont let my younger guys cut out nipples till they can cut and split a fitting without hitting threads.

EBEBRATT-Ed · January 29

Sweat copper is the way to go for a home owner. Press fitting and tools are $$$$. You have to arrange things so you're not trying to sweat copper with water dripping through it.

Get some fittings and pipe and practice sweating and un sweating before you start the job

jessestaton · January 29

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1884940#Comment_1884940

I have once cut out a radiator valve spud and did end up buggering up the radiator threads a bit. Luckily not enough that dope wouldn't seal the joint.
I expecting to cut a 45 or two. Thought I would try the grinder first then reciprocating saw with a good Red Devil metal cutting blade.
Trying to figure out how to deal with the condensate draining still while working. I have a floor drain about 10-15 feet away but I bet it's going to be a watery mess.

jessestaton · January 29

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1884960#Comment_1884960

good idea and yah, I am not proficient at sweating copper. always seem to use too much solder. I thought I would give it a try as the Dead Men would have done it. Black Iron should last for a long time and for copper I would still need to get two sides clean to screw in dialectic fittings, so I thought it would be easier to continue with black pipe and a union.

4GenPlumber · January 29

Start with the blade. If the kerf is too big its harder to Crack the opposing side. Sometimes if the cast iron doesnt pop, you can just wedge the cut, which loosens the threads, and spin the fitting off

4GenPlumber · January 29

Diablo Cast Iron toothed blades are the best thing that happened to me…ever...dont tell my wife.

Intplm. · January 29

@jessestaton Hopefully this repair will not be like chasing a bump in a rug but I would anticipate that for sure.

If this becomes a long length of pipe to replace, and it probably will , using copper makes the most sense. I remember using old DWV copper fittings for this years ago. They are still doing fine to this day. Regular copper fittings and adapters are good too. You do not need dielectric adapters on this pipe.

One thing to look out for is how much you shake the pipe when cutting. A hack saw by hand with a good metal cutting blade should work nicely causing the least amount of peripheral damage. A sawmill can really shake things up.

Do you have one of these?

With a good metal cutting blade?

This would help. Get one that is meant for cutting metal. You can also more easily gauge the depth of cut on the neck of the fitting you are cutting. This is great to use specially when cutting the neck of a black cast iron fitting. They do great and do not cause a lot of vibration. If you don't have any of these, elbow grease and a good hack saw will have to do.

Cut the pipe to where you can find a usable thread and go from there.

ethicalpaul · January 29

Hopefully he will put in flush ports on the new pipe and make sure the remaining old pipe is clear of debris before he hooks it back to his boiler. He should be able to avoid contaminating his boiler.

If you use steel pipes, wash them out with detergent first if possible. If the oils get into your boiler you will have to skim.

STEAM DOCTOR · January 29

If was my job, would certainly suggest replacing everything with copper. In all likelihood, once one part goes bad, the rest is not too far behind. Copper will certainly reduce the amount of sludge and oils that end up in your boiler

Wet return line called it quits

Comments

Categories