Radiant under concrete floor?
Does anyone make a system to install under a concrete floor, similar to the systems for under wood flooring?
Looking at an 8" thick concrete floor over a basement. 24" bays.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
Comments
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you wouldn't want to do that because the heat would end up below the floor instead of in the living space.
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if you came up with a way to fasten the aluminum heat transfer plates. That would work. Probably want 8 or more inches of insulation
8” concrete is about R 1.6 so about the same as 3/4 plywood with 5/8 hardwood.
But it will be a monster to control, a massive flywheel. Constant circulation and temperature modulation would be needed to help over shot and long ramp up
What type of structure with 8” concrete floors?
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
if you can do it without it becoming a carpentry nightmare, pouring a 2" or so lightweight slab on top would work better.
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ChrisJ, could you be more definitive about what you are trying to do. I don't understand, I'm kinda on the dumb side.
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Heat the concrete floor so it's not ice cold.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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This wasn't clean at all but I did a project adding snowmelt to an outside dining patio that was a suspended slab setup. we used joist trak plates screwed to the underside of the slab and insulated as best we could under the slab, and on the sides. It was completely out of normal install recommendations but it works even on our coldest, snowiest days. I forget what temp we ended up running the supply at, it was a bit of trial and error on that end. I think our slab was only about 4" thick though
Looking back one of the challenges was the joist trak being for 1/2" tubing, with so much load we had to keep the lengths to 150' approx. that portion had a 300,000 BTU/hr load, and I calculated a 162 supply temp, I think we settled on a little lower than that when all was said and done. that was for snowmelt so you should need a lower temperature. it will be very unresponsive though with that much slab between the tubing and the surface.
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Heat the concrete floor, or use the heated floor to heat the room? Because they aren't the same thing and usually people want to do the second.
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Floor warming is what I think he is after, the building has heat already.
Standing on cold concrete really saps energy from a person, besides being uncomfortable.
I just bough my first pair ever of heated socks for outdoor winter activity. They work great for old people with diminishing circulation :) Three temperature adjustments up to 8 hr on low setting before recharging.
I'd wear these in a shop with unheated concrete slabs.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
maybe you would just constantly circulate 80-100f water through the tubing and let the slab get up to whatever temp felt comfortable over a couple days. might need all sorts of things if you're not heating it with a mod con.
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What I didn't get was what the heat source that you were thinking about. How is the room heated, forced air, boiler, etc. What activity is on top of the slab. Perhaps, an insulated floor covering on top would make it more comfortable like engineered wood flooring with foam underlayment. I don't see how heating an 8" slab with possible edge loss can be done economically.
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The slab is fully inside the conditioned space, you're heating it whether you want to or not.
It just needs to be heated a little more than it is now, which probably means heating the air below it. For energy efficiency that probably means insulating the heated space. The question is how large that heated space is, it could be the whole basement or it could just be an inch or so below the concrete.
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If it were a shop, for example you may be able to just put tube under areas where workers stand. No need to heat under machinery, toolboxes or benches for example.
Similar concept to just doing tire tracks in a driveway snowmelt instead of the entire driveway.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Yes, the slab may be at room temperature, but the conductivity of heat energy is higher in concrete than other materials because of the low R value.. So, it can conduct heat energy away from your body rapidly making it seem cold. It's like standing in front of a bay window in winter even tho the room is at 65 degs. You feel cold. Put a sweater on and you feel warmer. Walk barefoot on a tile floor even when the room is at 68 degs and see the results. Your feet will tell you.
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The "something else" has yet to be determined, but considering oversized unit heaters running from a mod con.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Kind of completely a different direction but have you looked at residential approved radiant tube heaters?
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No, not yet anyway.
Why residential approved?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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I just made an assumption it was attached to living space. If it's not you can use any of them
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How about a suspended ceiling below the floor, with rolled out attic insulation on the ceiling tiles. Then Ultra-fin between the insulation and the concrete.
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