Repiping 1909 Gravity Hot Water System For House Move

JUGHNE · January 20

The local church rectory house was purchased by a couple and must be moved.

It is 2 and a half story, 1340 sq feet each for two full floors and full basement.

1340 X 3 = 4020 sq feet.

In 2013 a Lochinvar KBN 106; 105,000 BTUH input was installed to replace a CI because of a bad chimney with no practical route to the roof.

There are 637 connected EDR, 14 original CI rads, 7 on each floor.

In the basement there are two 3" supplies and two 3" returns at the boiler. These decrease in size as takeoffs are connected. And of course both are sloped up from the boiler to the corners of the house. All insulated with asbestos which must be removed.

My guess is that the piping will be in the way of locating the house mover I-beams and must be removed.

The boiler is piped P/S with 1 1/4" IPS connected to the double 3" IPS.

Has anyone had to repipe a system such as this? Any simple solutions?

I could see someone convincing them to go to forced air and trashing the CI rads.

TIA

Intplm. · January 20

If the pipes can be cut on the verticle and reinstalled after the move, that's an easier way to go. Otherwise a horizontal cut away and refit will be needed. Best to work with the house movers. They might have some ideas. For example, cribbing and blocking to save the piping.

Please don't let them trash the rads!

mattmia2 · January 20

Try to cut the connections to the risers in the basement such that you can thread a new fitting on then you can repipe with the material and topology of your choice. Even if the risers need to be replaced that will be less invasive than installing ductwork.

JUGHNE · January 20

My guess is that the only unions are at each rad. The insulation might be hiding some, but I doubt it.

One could remove the rad valves and drop the riser/runout.

It would be nice to have some zoning operation.

This, as other gravity systems I have seen, is split East side both floors and West side both floors.

Any ideas on some type of manifold system?

I am thinking that the basement IPS piping will most likely go away.

jesmed1 · January 20

Calling @EdTheHeaterMan …

mattmia2 · January 20

when you cut the runouts think about where you will be able to get back to a threaded joint to connect new mains or home run piping to. You could also replace the supply risers or possibly just cap the existing supply riser at the 1st floor and bring a new riser through the floor for the first floor radiator and feed the second floor with the existing risers. Anything is possible depending on budget.

In a pumped system 1/2" pex can probably feed one emitter, possibly a couple depending on how big they are. Pex is how I would reconnect, I would put a propex adapter on the existing and run pex either to a main or a manifold.

EBEBRATT-Ed · January 20

I am old and always like to save stuff but I am learning my lesson the last few weeks. I think you will end up with a total re pipe in most cases especially if you want zoning.

Chances are the CI rads on the FF and 2d floor are on top of each other making zoning difficult.

First floor drop pipe or copper through the floor and connect with pex same for second floor. manifolds in the basement.

I am doing a 100 year old house rewire (partial). I have been wasting time trying to save some of the 1929 AC cable (BX). The terminations are shaky. If you strip the cable back it looks ok. So u j box it and then find the same thing on the other end. Probably could have cut some holes and pulled new wire in the time it take to screw around with J boxes and then you still have 100 year old wire. Not worth in in most cases unless you absolutely can't pull a new wire. In a couple more days I have to decide on a better plan and make a call.. I have pretty much rewired the 2d floor already a little bit more to finish that.

Its all the general use plugs and lights. DW, disposal, dryer, boiler, washer are probably ok

pecmsg · January 20

after the move are you keeping it gravity or converting to circulators?

JUGHNE · January 20

The new owners live in another state. AFAIK they have not contacted a house mover, a basement digger/builder and are unaware of the abestoses.

This is to be their home when they come to visit the family, not sure.

I may be jumping the gun with this system thinking, but sitting here with a newly installed shoulder replacement and perhaps bored.

Also am supposed to be retired

JUGHNE · January 20

If the existing piping could remain intact for the move, then it could go back together like it is now.

It is actually a pumped system with P/S piping at the boiler.

But I am not about to deal with 3" pipe…..that would probably wreck the other shoulder.😥

mattmia2 · January 20

Is there asbestos on the risers in the walls or just in the basement? That could make things significantly more complicated.

JUGHNE · January 20

All the insulation is in the basement.

The second floor risers are visible outside the walls in the first floor rooms and connect to piping in the basement. Most are 3/4" and maybe one 1".

mattmia2 · January 20

if it is a "my first central heating" sort of retrofit of 100 years ago, repiping it should be straightforward unless they want to do better with the replacement.

EBEBRATT-Ed · January 20

@JUGHNE

Supposed to be retired myself. But its for my nephew.

EBEBRATT-Ed · January 21

@JUGHNE

Hope the shoulder goes ok. My sister is 79 and she had one shoulder done about a year and a half ago. Did a little therapy and is doing pretty good with it.

The things we do with 3' & 4' wrenches come back to haunt us in old age.

EdTheHeaterMan · January 21

Throw away all the 3" stuff in the basement. Cut the risers in a way that they can be threaded or you can get 1" and 3/4" MegaPress Adaptors so you don't need to throw away the risers to the second floor.

Make home runs with PEX back to the boiler room for the second floor. Make another set of home runs to the first floor using PEX directly connected to the Radiator valves and return bend unions. then cover the PEX with chrome pipe covers. As they go thru the floor.

With the proper manifolds you can actually take the time to balance rooms that over heat if needed.

That's what I would do.

If the home runs are too long because the house is that big, then you can put manifolds at each end of the basement for the first and second floor zones and end up with 4 zones

You certainly don't need 3" pipe for a pumped system.

JUGHNE · January 21

Thanks to everyone for replies.

I will be off line for a couple of days as now on the way to get surgery on the left hand for carpal tunnel repairs.

Must be getting old…..

jumper · January 21

I'd go for new flexible pipes like pex or soft copper. I'd also investigate overhead distribution for supply if there's room for manifold in attic. If overhead is feasible then I'd think about abandoning CI rads for ceiling high panels. I'm a retro guy with nostalgia for CI rads but…..

EBEBRATT-Ed · January 21

@JUGHNE

The perils of old age. I have carpal tunnell in both wrists and nerve entrapment in both elbows….among other things……. We should be sitting in the diner like the other old goats comparing medications and talking about our aliments.

mattmia2 · January 21

i'm only 51 and i feel like i should be doing that.

like i used to say, and amateur radio contact should include a signal report, a weather report and a description of a medical procedure.

Intplm. · January 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1883285#Comment_1883285

Hope the carpal tunnel surgery went well. Of all the surgeries I have had, carpal tunnel was the best. I felt the improvement in the recovery room. The symptoms were gone. @JUGHNE hope you have the same experience.

Repiping 1909 Gravity Hot Water System For House Move

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